Troy Elmore on Prospecting Change Management and Sales Leadership

Transcript

0:03 We have another episode of Tailwind.

0:05 Today we're joined by Troy Elmore out of the Houston area. Troy, tell us a little bit more about yourself.

0:11 Hey Austin, it's good to good to be on here. Uh, I am a 23 year Sandler guy uh down in down here in lovely hot Houston,

0:20 Texas for the most part. And um been in sales since 1993 when I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and never

0:28 used it. and uh went into sales and then purchased this office in uh 2003. I've been doing it for 23 years and every

0:36 single day learning and going to keep doing it as long as I'm relevant and can.

0:39 Yeah, mechanical engineering that's a hard degree and then to not use it. Why why'd you pick sales instead?

0:47 So, you know, it's funny. This is when I went to college, my dad, I was like, "Hey, what can I do?" And he said, he worked at a plant down here in Houston.

0:56 I know that's kind of crazy. there's a lot of, you know, chemical plants. And he said, "Well, you could be like, there's five professions, Troy. You could be a banker, an engineer, an

1:04 architect, a doctor, a lawyer, some version of those, or maybe accountant versus an architect." And I was like, I I don't want to do any of those jobs.

1:12 So, I guess I'm pretty good in math.

1:14 Engineer sounds pretty cool. I'll do that. So, you know, that's how I got going. And about three or four years in, I said, I don't want to be an engineer.

1:21 I really want to be in sales. and there's this degree called industrial distribution which is kind of half technical half sales and I I said hey I

1:30 want to switch my major and he said um you can but I'm not paying anymore if you do so I got the engineering degree I wouldn't

1:38 got an MBA that was that was much cooler than this but that's how I got an engineering degree you know so just the lack of knowing a whole hell of a lot

1:46 what was out there back then this is explaining why you have a very systematic like processoriented way of describing and visual izing things that

1:54 that's connecting the dot real strong there. I like it a lot.

1:57 Cool. Yeah. So, so as we were discussing beforehand a little bit, you know, really talking about this and the systematic nature of it. Um, you know,

2:05 to do prospecting is really something that needs to be supported by three pillars. I know, I care, I can. Uh, tell me a little bit more about those. Yeah,

2:13 I think you know you know the the premise today really when it comes to I know I I care and I can comes really from leadership you know and what we

2:22 find is that any successful you know uh strategy initiative if you will from a company has to have a lot of leadership

2:31 almost all-in commitment and they've got to do certain things and if they don't do certain things then you know these initiatives especially these prospecting

2:38 initiatives they they have a little bit of you know they get going then they fade or you know you know you know we always this two shall pass type

2:46 scenario. So as we [clears throat] go through this I'll kind of walk through each one of these pillars and I want people to think in terms of leadership

2:53 and sales leadership. They are the difference maker in any initiative. And so why do I call this an initiative?

3:01 Because prospecting is the hard part. If it was all just about managing your existing accounts well heck you don't have to do a whole lot for sales people

3:09 love doing that. It's going up to new that's hard. So maybe what we can do is we can start under the I know and kind of talk about what leadership needs to

3:17 do there in that pillar and then kind of go to the I care and I can. How's that sound? That sounds great.

3:23 Okay, good deal. So imagine for a second you you're a sales leader and you go to your team and you

3:30 say, "I know you guys have been super comfortable enjoying life, taking care of your customers. That's what y'all love to do. But now I need a certain

3:38 percentage of you guys to go call on people who are going to reject you, right? And who are going to who are going to be who are not going to be nice to you and you need to go out and you

3:46 need to get way out of your comfort zone and expand the heck out of it. Of course, the sales people are like, you know, really, I mean, well, is this

3:55 one of those like kind of crazy way out strategy? This is going to pass type scenario. And so the first pillar has to be what we call the why or the I know.

4:06 The salespeople have to understand why are we um you know sort of pursuing this strategy now when what we've been doing

4:14 before was working right in quotation marks. And so under [snorts] the I know they need to know why are we doing this.

4:22 So so there's two categories under the I know and it's one is a vision or a clear vision. So the leadership has to be able

4:29 to say, "Look, we're going to go after these type of customers." Let's say your ICP, your ideal client profile. We're

4:37 going to either go after these type of new ones or we're going to expand this type of business. And the reason we're going to go after that is because either

4:45 we've got some kind of new product or service that we really want to get to the market or quite possibly um you know we want to go after that because you

4:53 know when it comes to a comp so you have a clear vision you have a compelling reason maybe the compelling reason is that we're losing a lot of market share

5:00 or we have a certain product that maybe isn't as viable in the market and so we got to get this new one out. So like I had a software company I worked with one time

5:08 and you know they their their particular software they had sold and managed forever that thing was phasing out. It

5:16 was phasing out and so they weren't going to support it anymore. So they got this brand new enterprise version and so the the clear vision was we got to get our people onboarded onto this new

5:25 version and we also have to go sell new people on this new version. And the reason is because if we don't do it, one, we're losing market share to people

5:33 who uh are going after our competition because our old stuff isn't that good, but number two is we're not going to support it.

5:38 And so, you see how there's a clear vision and a real compelling reason. And so, as a salesperson, I'm a I can see why are we going out here to do this?

5:46 Because if we don't, then our company is going to start to lose revenue, lose market share, and so on and so on. Right.

5:54 Yeah. Yeah. So it I don't have a strong sales like background. I haven't been in it for like as many years as you have. It this

6:02 sounds like in other positions that I've been in in my career where most change in initiatives fall apart because they come out with this and then they go now

6:10 go get after it and everything kind of crumbles. Is that kind of similar in the sales role or is it different? And I was just exposed to like you know other aspects of the business.

6:19 No, I think you're hitting it right on the money. I mean, I think these are these are why a lot of the change initiatives fail. It's because we don't

6:26 start a as leadership. We don't say, you know, here's a real good compelling why why if we keep doing what we're doing

6:34 now, um then it's not our company's not going to be in the same position. It's going to hurt you and so on. And so here's the the clear vision is here's

6:42 the direction we're heading who we need to go after or who you know maybe it's a new customers or maybe it's new logos or maybe we need to expand certain types of

6:50 business. Here's the clear vision of where we're going and here's the compelling reason the why we're we need to do it or we lose out because that

6:58 right there keeps it from being flavor of the month, right? Because a lot of these change additions are flavor of the month. So that's that's the first sort of pillar is the help the salespeople

7:07 know why we're doing it and where are we going. I I hate to admit that I've definitely been in a role where

7:14 leadership has failed to do that and then I was like, "All right, I'm going to keep servicing my customers and in about a month all that's going to change

7:22 and I'm not going to have, you know, done any effort towards it, but it won't matter because I haven't I haven't had to actually switch over because it is the flavor of the month." That totally that's

7:31 resonating with my experiences in the past. I hate to say it. You want to imagine yourself as always being the person who's like, "Hey, I'm part of the team. We're all rowing in the same

7:39 direction. let's get after it. But to your point, sometimes if you're constantly doing it, it's really hard to be like, but are we really doing this?

7:47 Am I rowing in the same direction or if I just keep rowing my direction, we'll all end up in the same way anyhow? Take that as a starting point for sure.

7:54 I can tell you too, I mean, if you've done this a couple times and you've gone up, let's say you're trying to expand your your existing customer base and you're going to get them to look at a

8:03 new product or service and then that that initiative kind of goes down the tube. You can only do that a couple times and you start to blow, you know, all this political capital you started

8:11 to build in that particular account. You know, if it's a brand new logo, they don't really know any different. But I mean, if you've been like, I know I've

8:19 blown some serious political capital trying to go after some initiative that didn't really have the staying power, nor were we ready for it. And so,

8:27 you know, that's that. So, you kind of go, well, I'm going to step back and wait now because I don't really see that. Why are we doing this? And what's

8:35 the real comp? What happens if we don't do it? In my mind, I'm I'm I'm trying to figure that out because I don't I don't want to, you know, these relationships I've built over time. I don't want them

8:43 to get ruined. That's only when I'm trying to expand my business with an existing customer versus a new logo. But I may not also want to blow that one too

8:52 or first time I'm going out, we're trying to introduce some kind of new software or some new product or service that now wasn't vetted very carefully.

8:58 We weren't ready for it and then I get killed and then I don't have a chance to get back in very easy.

9:03 Yeah. Now, in the situation where, let's say, I'm sitting in my seat and I I've blown my political capital and I'm like,

9:10 "Oh, all right. Well, I didn't have the the framework. I didn't I wasn't sure what to do." But now I'm kind of like, "Oh, well, am I just screwed or like do you have any recommendations or advice

9:19 on how to start navigating it to get back to the like the structured approach that actually is going to start following through?" And I'm sure once

9:27 you follow it, you're going to start gaining a bunch back or do you need to get it all back? I'm just curious like what you would say as like next step. I think vulnerability doesn't hurt a whole

9:35 lot. You know, look, this is initiative that, you know, that we had as a company. I came to you because you're one of my great customers to, you know,

9:43 kind of put you up, you know, at the top. Um, I probably should have done a better job of telling you this this is something that's a new initiative. You

9:50 know, maybe we're beta testing it, if you will. In software world, that's a beta test, but you can do the same thing with a product or service, right? I think uh I think you know going back and

10:00 falling on the sword, but then also if you're going ahead to do it again uh that you're pretty open and honest about the fact that hey, you are in a beta

10:08 group. You're in this group. We're we're trying to go down this path. We feel like it's going to help you and we're trying to bring it to you because you're a great customer, but know fully well.

10:15 You know, if you if you feel like if this doesn't work, it's going to make you look bad, then we don't want to do it, right? Or if it's going to hurt you guys. So, I think that's the really the only way you can do it.

10:24 Yeah, that makes sense. I'm all about the ownership stuff. I I haven't met a person who who didn't like appreciate somebody being like, "All right, my bad.

10:32 I take the blame." If you start pointing the finger at other people, I think that's when you lose it completely. But I'm with you on that one.

10:39 Yes. I guess I guess one more thing to add on that. We talked about the sales people need. It's under the I know pillar. They, you know, the leadership has to have a comp a clear vision, but

10:48 also they need to, you know, have a good compelling reason to go after this vision. Because if you don't have a good compelling reason like hey we're losing market share or this particular software

10:57 is not going to be ser you know is not going to be supported anymore or um you know we're phasing this out or you know hey our competition's coming up killing

11:06 us. If you don't have a good compelling reason then what they see is they see something that doesn't feel very urgent.

11:14 It's like it seems like oh yeah I got to I see the vision but do we have to do it right now? So, you have to have a vision

11:21 and it has to be a compelling reason why we're going after that vision.

11:25 Yeah. Yeah. Like, hey, I'm busy. I got a lot of stuff going on. Why should I dep prioritize something that has been working for me? Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

11:33 Let's do that next month. I got other stuff I got going on, right?

11:36 Yeah. And next month always becomes a year later at some point if you let that kind of be there which I think kind of goes into the next pillar which is the I care part

11:44 of you know okay so now I conceptually understand but why do I you know why do I care about it at this moment in time

11:52 I I conceptually understand why the company needs to do it where the company needs to go and why that's a compelling reason for the

11:59 company now the next pillar is called the I care so why should I care about what the company needs to do Why should

12:06 I care? Because that's what you're saying the company is. But but why does that matter to me? And I know that seems selfish and like, oh, we're a team

12:14 player and this and that, but there there has to be something about, you know, helping the sales people realize why they should personally care. And so

12:23 under those pillars, in order to get it where the salespeople tend to have something in it for them, you have what we call leaders have to demonstrate

12:32 commitment. So you have a leaders demonstrate commitment. We also have the the whiff princ principle. And so I'll

12:38 explain what that both those are. So in order for me to care as a salesperson, I need to see my leaders committed to

12:47 doing the things it takes that I have to do as well. Does that mean that they have, you know, that they're going to be picking up the phone and making dials

12:55 with me? Maybe, maybe not. But they, you know, if you do get meetings and conversations, they better be available for them. They need to be available to

13:03 debrief them. They if you're going through training, they need to go through it with you. It's not a leader support you. They have to be allin with

13:12 you because you're gauging how why should I care? Because my leaders care because they are busy, right? Your sales

13:19 leadership, I mean, talk about a a thankless job sometimes. And the sales leaders have they got so much stuff going on. And I know they're super busy

13:27 because they're managing a bunch of people because you know how it is.

13:29 Sometimes it's a glorified babysitter job. Not always, but they can be. And if I see my leadership putting in the time

13:36 and the effort to learn, get better, help me. Wow, they're committed. They're really committed. It's this is important

13:44 because they wouldn't be putting that time in if they wouldn't what they weren't. So that's under the I care.

13:49 Leaders have to show allin commitment, not I support it. That doesn't mean that

13:55 is, you know, you're I support it. You guys Okay, go. Good job. Right. Yeah. Get after it.

14:02 Yeah, get after it. But you know how it could be as it's like, you know, they're staying late. They're doing stuff they don't normally do. They're they're giving up some of their own personal

14:10 time and you know, they're rep prioritizing things. And I'm I could see that and go maybe I should care because they're caring a lot, right? And then

14:18 the other piece of the I care is your leadership has to do a really good job of tying these new corporate goals,

14:26 these new company goals to the goals of the salesperson.

14:31 Okay? Because the salesperson is working for their personal goals. Now you could say they work for money. Yeah. But money allows them to reach their goals. It

14:40 allows them go on go on vacations to buy a home to pay for college to save for retirement, you know, whatever they're

14:48 trying to do. And so if you're a leader and you don't understand that person's personal goals because you guys have sat

14:55 down and talked about them and you haven't tied how those those personal goals, you know, will be will be

15:02 reachable through going and doing this corporate initiative, right? So you have to tie them together.

15:07 Yeah. And if not, if not, they won't they won't be as motivated. They might do it because you're making them. But

15:14 once you tie into, hey, I know you want to go on four vacations this year, if you go after this type of customer and

15:22 we sell this type of stuff and especially since your compensation is tied to that now, you'll be able to easily get that goal. And and so you see

15:29 how that is that that applies. So the under the I care leadership has to be all in committed and they also have to be able to link you know personal goals

15:39 to the corporate goals and the personal goals better not be less than if you will right if you have a corporate goal that says you got to find this many new

15:47 customers and your personal goal is well I don't need to make that much money because my goals aren't that high you you got to link that together and say

15:55 well we got to work on we got to figure something out because they're not aligned as long as the personal goals and the amount of money you need to make um is higher than what the corporate goals are, then you're aligned.

16:05 Yeah, you're aligned. Yeah.

16:07 So, I you know, I feel like that there's a a through line between both of those for leadership specifically, which is

16:14 accountability be has to be part of this pillar where it's like you can show your commitment through accountability. Like you're saying like working hard, you

16:22 know, carving out time, maybe staying later. It does seem like, you know, something that I've seen leaders in different positions fail at is then

16:30 actually doing the hard part, which can be the tough conversations that go into accountability or even the goal setting and the the pushing for alignment. And

16:38 that also can be like, hey, look, if I if I'm in that second stage, I'm not sure if I if I believe in this initiative [clears throat] and I know

16:46 that my, you know, I'm watching my leader and they're not doing anything that shows me that they're going to hold me accountable, then I'm probably going, "Well, this isn't that serious." And

16:54 just even the step of maybe not even staying later, but saying we're going to sit down. We're going to lay out how we're aligned. I'm going to hold you accountable to that.

17:02 Yes.

17:03 What seems like a a not the end all be all of what that step is, but like a really strong way to be like, how do I take this, you know, you listening to

17:11 what Troy saying and then go I think I can go apply this today immediately without having to think too much about it.

17:17 Yes. And I'm I'll talk a little bit about accountability in the I can pillar, but you're exactly right. But they're they are watch it's like

17:25 watching mom and dad right you know do as I say you know not as I do type scenario. This is it is not that far off

17:33 from they have to see how committed you are. And so if you're a leader and you're saying well that's just what executive leadership wants. We're going

17:41 to kind of see if we can we're not going to quite do all that stuff. I mean you're killing the right there. I mean that little thing it's that important.

17:49 And then again, if they don't see how this is going to help them reach their personal goals, the salespeople, if leadership isn't helping the sales people see how they're going to reach your personal goals, then they're gonna

17:57 be like, it's not really worth it to me, you know, but so that's really what it comes down to. It's it's some simple

18:04 ideas that can make a very successful change engagement, you know, or or just one or two little

18:11 things that are missing and all of a sudden now we're not getting the momentum we need to get on this change initiative.

18:17 Yeah. Well, change is hard for the most part. Most people don't like it. And I think it's very complex, but I'm a big

18:24 believer in simplicity solves comp like complexity. And so having these very like you just have to do this part, you have to do this part. And the these

18:32 things will start to you'll have to navigate them as they come up. But if you have those approaches in place, that'll really make it easy.

18:39 Get that vacation you want. You wanted four vacations this year. This is going to help you do it. Unless that's not that important anymore. Oh, it's important.

18:46 Okay. Okay. Well, this is how this aligns together.

18:49 Yeah. And you were mentioning so the accountability, you know, does, you know, is part of the I care, but is more of a part of the I can. Is that correct?

18:56 Yeah. I think it blends a little bit more into the I can. It it I care is me as a leader, you know, being committed

19:04 to growing myself, but also, you know, committed to understanding you and holding you accountable means I means means that you can see that you should

19:11 care because I care. But then there's a accountability also has a process piece to it. And so, so you have the I know

19:18 which is clear vision, compelling reason from leaders as a if I'm if I'm looking from the salesperson perspective. Then why should I care? Oh, because my

19:27 leaders are super all in committed and also because this aligns perfectly with my personal goals. So that's why I care.

19:34 Now I got to figure out now can I do it?

19:37 Wow. Can I do I do I have the ability to do this? And because you know especially if I haven't done a lot of prospecting lately and I've been you know you know

19:44 hanging out with my accounts for the last few years I just got out of practice right p prospecting is something you have to practice it's not something you know I don't have to

19:52 practice a whole lot of hey how's it going everything going okay today right that's you know but but to make a cold call to somebody or to have a compelling

20:00 you know uh conversation that takes practice right and so this comes into the I can and so under the I can is they

20:09 you have to give the salesperson leaders have to give them the skill sets the knowledge and the skill sets to be able to do it and they also have to kind of

20:16 help implement some systems so that it does you know so it stays and it's kind of a repeatable it's a repeatable thing

20:23 and so you know this the knowledge and the skills are maybe it's just some training right I need to give my guys some training on how to you know make

20:32 conversa have conversations with people that uh that maybe they don't know if they're at a trade show if they're making a cold call if they're sending

20:39 emails. They need some skill sets. You know, things that you guys have talked with other Sandler guys about like how do I break patterns? How do I set the expectations? How do I reduce anxiety?

20:48 How do I have a compelling, you know, uh 30 second commercial with pain points?

20:53 And then how do I, you know, dig in a little bit f further and get a call to action? or if I don't get anything there, how can I kind of, you know, how

21:00 can I come back and use certain, you know, uh, techniques to to, you know, even though they didn't tell me they had a challenge now, but maybe to kind of come back and end around and see if they

21:09 have a challenge. So, those are all techniques that I need to learn. I need to practice. And so, they got to learn it and practice it until it becomes

21:16 muscle memory. So, that's under the I can knowledge and skills section, right? And so, does it make sense?

21:23 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

21:26 And then so you said there's the there's the learning how to do it and then the systems to support it. You can tell me a little bit more about the systems of

21:33 support. You know, it's great to have the technique, but if you never practice it, if you're not held accountable, you know, what's the point? Cool.

21:41 Yeah. So, so processes and systems are there's so many things that you could have here.

21:46 There's leadership processes and systems, which could be as simple as um that you're going to role play with

21:53 them. um you're going to observe uh you know you know technology makes it easy to observe a lot of prospecting nowadays in real time and or even afterwards use

22:02 AI. So um I got to observe or at least get the data and I got to coach them. So there's a coaching piece. So from a

22:09 leadership perspective I got to put in the coaching piece that's that's not just you know every once in a while but you know this is a an ongoing maybe it's

22:17 a once a week for 20 or 30 minutes coaching somebody. Um, so that's that's one piece. Also, I I have to put together what we call their cookbook,

22:25 their behavior with accountability. And so that means who are they who are they going to be reaching out to? How much are they reaching out? Uh, you know, so

22:34 it's it's a behavioralbased thing. And then and then how do I hold them accountable? Now, there's a little bit of a secret here when it comes to processes and systems. The secret is is

22:43 that if you really want people to um to really not feel like you're micromanaging them, when you put

22:50 together a behavioral cookbook, which is nothing more than what are the behaviors per day or per week with accountability, you build it with them. You build it

22:58 with them. You say, "Hey, what do you think?" You know what our the goals are because we just talked about it. You know what we have to accomplish.

23:07 [snorts]

23:07 So, what do you think as far as the behavior that you would think that you should be doing every single week? And they say, you know, and also, how do you

23:14 want to be held accountable? And so, you could almost fill it out yourself as a leader and then get them to fill the same thing out. What are those top three or four behaviors that you think you

23:22 should be doing? And then, how do you want to be held accountable? I could do on my side, say, here's what I think the top three or four behaviors are. Here's how I think it makes sense to hold you

23:30 accountable. And then we come back together and we build this mutual plan.

23:35 And then now it's your baby, not my baby. And so now I've built an accountability system that is something

23:43 that you have ownership in versus me just shoving it down your throat. And so the processes and systems are all about

23:50 how do I not after I've trained you, how do I coach you, you know, what you've learned, how do we make sure we reinforce it. I'm constantly coaching

23:59 you. And then how do we build mutuala uh behavioral um activities and a mutual cookbook? And so, you know, on the

24:07 salesperson side, me putting those things in place, it it allows me to over

24:14 time, you know, it's not like I'm going to get super success overnight. These things over time will start to get to a

24:22 point where uh I will start to see success. And so, you know, if I don't have processes and systems in place, a lot of sales people just kind of

24:28 willy-nilly things. And so, you build them together. And it's coaching, behaviors, and account. Coaching is

24:37 different than putting behaviors in place. Coaching is here's what you learned. I'm going to, you know, you're really good at dribbling. You learned how to dribble. I'm going to make you better, and I'm going to talk to you

24:45 about about what what you're seeing. And it's not even just coaching on the technique. It's coaching about what's going on in your head. It's called conceptual coaching, too. So what were

24:54 you thinking there? Right? Did you notice when you kind of went off the right the path? Yep. Tell me what was going through your head right then. What were you worried about, concerned about?

25:02 If you if you remembered it but didn't do it. So you have conceptual coaching. You have technique or tactical coaching.

25:09 You have um holding them accountable through mutual uh behavioral plans and mutual accountability. If you do that over time, now you got a recipe for

25:18 success. So even when you bring on new people, you can do the same thing.

25:22 Yeah. And and also there's another piece of processes and systems. It's how you measure success, right? And so a lot of

25:29 times if we don't have the right KPIs in place when we're doing these things, sales people will get to the point where they're like

25:36 just, you know, I just don't think I can get there. I just don't think I can get there. I just nothing's really working.

25:41 But we're measuring the wrong stuff instead of we're measuring like sales versus did you talk to the person? Okay.

25:48 And from there, did you have a longer conversation? And did you book a you know right then and did you book a meeting those little mini successes

25:57 is what measuring not these did you sell something worst question you could ask some saleserson right did you sell something today no you know

26:05 it's it it's all about the wins coming from these little micro steps right I got a hold of you oh and you actually

26:14 talked to me for three minutes and then you then you were okay talking to me for 10 more minutes and then we booked a conversation booked an appointment that

26:21 stood that that stuck, right? Those little those are the KPIs you're looking at when you're prospecting and trying to develop change initiatives.

26:28 Yeah, it I got to imagine that at the very beginning of this change is when it's most fragile and then the sales

26:36 unless you're in a really insanely fast sales cycle are going to be further out.

26:42 And so if you're saying, "Hey, at the most fragile time, I'm going to be hassling people about something that's not even going to happen until three, six, nine months later," it's just like,

26:50 "Well, there's no way. This is just going to be completely dissonant. You're not going to be able to keep both things in their head correct." They're like, "Well, wait a second. How am I supposed

26:58 to change the way I am and expect the results that I know are six months away and keep and then your then your head starts

27:06 getting in the way?" Yeah.

27:07 And you know how that is, right? And so we need them to really understand,

27:14 teach them the knowledge and skills, you know, have a mutual accountability, coach them, but I really want them to have a mindset that look, follow the

27:23 process, it's about the process. It's not about the outcome because they're always so worried about, you know, the outcome is a distraction. And the outcome to most sales people is, did I

27:31 sell something? No, it's just did you did you follow the process? We're going to coach to the process. And you know, all these pillars have to be in place.

27:39 If you don't have this last one, I can your saleserson's going, "This is not possible or it's not effective, but something's not working. So, why do I keep I'm going to go back to what I was

27:48 doing?" Yeah. Right.

27:49 Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Now, yeah, if I have an initiative that I'm going to, you know, do, do I build this

27:57 initiative out the linear way that you're talking about? Is this something that I think about all three at the same time? It's, you know, it sounds like you have to have all three. That's a

28:04 non-negotiable, but do you try to bring them all together in one brainstorming session? Like how do you go about setting this up for yourself?

28:12 That's a great if if I'm doing this and change initiative as a leader or a leadership team, I have to handle at

28:19 least the first I know the first two buckets of the why are we doing this as a company, you know, and why are we

28:26 doing it now, which is your clear vision and compelling reason and here's what happens if we don't do it. Then also I have to handle half of the I care bucket

28:34 which is what are we as leaders going to do to show all-in commitment and we have to meet and discuss that and be on the same page and vet the whole thing out

28:43 argue yell at each other whatever we got to do because when this stuff goes out to them they're like the kids waiting for mom

28:50 and dad to to say I don't know it's like you know I got four daughters and they are very very good at pitting trying to pit my wife and I against each Yeah.

29:01 Okay. So, and they've learned and they they'll they've as they gotten older, one's 21, I have a set of triplets that are 17 and you know, they'll tell me now

29:10 they're like, "Dad, here's how we did it." I'm like, "Oh, you guys are geniuses." [laughter] And I'm a little pissed at the same

29:17 time, but man, you can't fault like, "Yeah, this is what you say. This is what mom would say." And in fact, we knew we got to the point where they if

29:25 they were getting upset with us whenever I'd say, "Well, but what did your mom ah who cares [clears throat] what mom said or hey, we're not doing that because mom

29:33 and I have agreed this then they kind of they all get back to here's how it's a bunch of sales team. It's a sales team, right? All four of them get

29:41 back together and they're like, "Damn it, usual stuff's not working. What else can we throw at this?" Because we don't want to do this differently in our house. We like what we're doing now. We

29:50 don't want to get off our phones. We don't want to change. We don't want to go meet new people, do this. All right.

29:55 How can we what can we what can we throw at them now? So, but if my wife and I have already done the, you know, here's why we're doing this as a family.

30:03 Here's the reason. Here's where we want to go. Here's the reason we're doing it now and here's what your mom and I are going to do to show our commitment and we've already discussed this. We're on the same page.

30:11 That's where you got to start.

30:13 Yeah, that makes sense. And we we've talked about this, you know, through the lens of prospecting. However, I is there anything you would change if you have a

30:21 different initiative or is this, you know, hey, I'm a sales leader. I can apply apply this framework to whatever differences I want to change. Maybe we're not doing as much margin cutting.

30:31 Maybe we're not uh doing trial periods anymore. Maybe we're not and there's you can take this and apply that to any other spot that you're trying to make a difference.

30:39 No, I don't I think it applies to so much change, you know, to all change.

30:43 I've seen it. I've seen we had a client one time where it wasn't all about prospecting because they kind of had leads if you will that that come to them

30:51 but they they had a huge sales team. I say huge it was a it was a few hundred people and it was a big monster change to go

30:58 from what they were doing now um to something new especially a new sales process and so we drove it from top down

31:06 where the head you know the head of sales and marketing had to have a clear vision and a compelling reason. Then we got with the leadership team and we said

31:13 here's what the clear vision and the compelling reason is. Let's vet it out.

31:16 You do you guys believe that? Do y'all see it? And then then we talked as a leadership team, you know, how are we going to demonstrate commitment? And it

31:25 it took a few years to start to try to sort of try to transform this thing, but it has transformed nicely. You could do it with CRM implementation. You could do

31:33 it with, you know, bringing a new process in, you know, on the op side.

31:37 It's it's all about how do we build how do we get real change and then not just change for a little bit but just it's

31:45 almost culturally right and so how do we change culturally CRM's a big ch a cultural change if anybody's ever tried that one before or a piece of obviously

31:53 you know a piece of software is a big cultural change it can be yeah yeah it it definitely is and if you treat it as if it's not then you're not doing the three steps that

32:01 you're talking about here the three you're not putting together three pillars isn't isn't doing is doing justice. Um,

32:08 all right. I want to I want to respect your calendar, so I want to wind this down a little bit.

32:13 Uh, but before I let you go, you know, what would be the final summation, the final thing that you'd want people to like if they're going to walk away with

32:20 one thing or just like one idea, you know, what would it be?

32:24 Yeah. I think if you're a sales leader or a leader in general, it doesn't have to be a sales leader. Um, I think you

32:31 don't take sort of when you know you're about to bring your people and expand their comfort zone or or you know turn their sort of sort you know the old

32:39 phrase used to be move your move their cheese if you will but you know don't don't do it sort of halfcocked or half-hearted really think about the why

32:48 behind it and then how you're going to be committed. though I think if you can do that you've already you're you're miles ahead. If you're a salesperson,

32:56 um, you know, or a person who's this change is about to happen, I think you can ask some critical questions like why, you know, hey, we're doing this and

33:03 I'm I'm open to what you guys are doing, but help me understand kind of why we're doing that as a company and what's the reason we're doing it now and let's talk

33:10 about how we are all committed, you know, because if not, you're going to potentially have a lot of bitterness and resentment if you don't see your

33:17 leaders, you know, having the same type of commitment and the same type of direction and and motivation that you do. And and that's the last thing you

33:24 want cuz you you either it's worse to have it's like the old thing um have someone train somebody. Everybody's

33:32 always worried about training somebody and then they leave but not training them or having someone who's unmotivated it's worse when they stay. And so

33:40 yeah, it's it's a I think as a salesperson, it's okay to ask the right, you know, or as a person, you have a change, it's okay to ask the right questions about

33:48 what are we doing, why are we doing it, but not from a viewpoint of I ain't changing, but hey, help me understand it. But as a leader, realize that's what

33:56 everybody's doing behind the scenes cuz rarely does someone like change and if they like it too much, they probably need medicine, right? You know, because

34:04 they love too much change and that that's another we don't have two hours to discuss that. We'll do it on another podcast.

34:11 Yes, absolutely. So, but I appreciate you. You you I hope this wasn't too complex. I want people to be able to get some value out of it. But if they can just remember that as a leader, you got

34:20 to help your people realize the why are they doing it, the I know. Help them, you know, understand why they should care, the I care, and then help them

34:27 realize that they can do it by the I can. You do it. And we can share the the visual if you want, but you can do those things. You're well on your way to a

34:36 change initiative that has a hell of a chance of being super successful.

34:38 Yeah, we can definitely make sure to include the visual for a reference point, but I think this is fantastic. I think you're right. It is complex, but the way you laid it out makes it

34:46 consumable and something that people could sit down and put some effort in. Doable.

34:51 Yes. Great deal. Thank you, Austin, for having me. Sure. I really appreciate