Joe Knotts on AI-Assisted Prospecting and Human-Centered Sales

Transcript

0:02 We have another episode of Tailwind.

0:04 Today we're joined by Joe Nuts. Joe,

0:06 tell us a little bit more about

0:07 yourself.

0:08 >> Hey, thanks so much for having me on,

0:10 Austin. So, my background is sales

0:12 leadership and revenue growth. You

0:14 especially focusing on B2B environments

0:16 where relationships, discipline, and

0:18 really the execution is what matters.

0:21 Over the last several years, I've really

0:23 become passionate about combining

0:25 traditional sales excellence with AI

0:28 enabled systems. Not because AI replaces

0:31 the fundamentals, but because it makes

0:33 good sales teams faster, sharper, and

0:36 way better prepared. So, my lane is

0:38 really helping companies create more

0:40 qualified conversations, coach reps more

0:42 effectively, and really build better

0:45 lead magnets to prepare for sales calls

0:47 in minutes. um you know at a level that

0:51 used to take literally used to take

0:52 days.

0:53 >> So truthfully the human stall's trust

0:55 judgment coaching and courage AI just

0:58 helps remove the drag.

1:00 >> Yeah. Couldn't agree with you more. I

1:02 think that's the right on the same page

1:03 on that one. You know we were talking a

1:05 little bit beforehand and you were

1:06 talking about uh your belief system

1:08 around prospecting right now and how

1:10 it's evolving in our current landscape.

1:12 Uh tell me a little bit more about that.

1:15 Well, uh, a couple things are I I don't

1:17 believe you can effectively prospect the

1:19 way that, uh, the way I grew up in, you

1:22 know, um, let's just say I'm I'm I I was

1:25 raised up in sales in the 1900s, not in

1:27 not in the 2000s. And I mean, almost

1:31 literally my first sales manager said,

1:33 you know, here's the type of customers

1:35 that we call on, they're under P in the

1:37 yellow pages, you know, let's say

1:39 plumbers or what have you, and they

1:40 throw the book at you, and you would

1:42 just smile and dial. And really, it was

1:44 really more crying and dialing. But I

1:46 think people um a they really don't

1:50 answer the phone unless your face shows

1:52 up with a smiley emoji right next to it

1:54 if you're calling on their cell phone,

1:56 right? I mean, I don't answer a number

1:57 that isn't that doesn't have a that

2:00 doesn't have an actual name attached to

2:02 it if it comes up on my cell phone

2:04 unless I know that my unless it looks

2:06 like the hospital.

2:08 So, it's different than it was today.

2:11 >> Yeah. I I remember one of my first sales

2:13 jobs and to your point smiling and

2:16 crying is why I was out of sales for a

2:18 while. Um was here's a list of all of

2:21 the uh the law firms in Oregon. They we

2:25 all want them to you know advertise in

2:28 the Oregon State Bar magazine. Call

2:30 them. And that was it. That was all of

2:33 the guidance that I had. I had nothing

2:35 else. I wasn't even sure what to say

2:36 when they picked up. So, I just started

2:39 smiling and maybe crossing my fingers

2:41 more than anything. Um, but that

2:43 certainly has changed. Uh, and then

2:45 yeah, agreed that people generally don't

2:47 pick up the phone anymore, especially

2:49 with caller ID. Um, so that being

2:52 something that's changed significantly.

2:54 Are you are you getting away from the

2:56 phones completely? What are you saying

2:58 is like the more foundational aspect uh

3:00 in today's, you know, prospecting

3:02 environment? Well, as much as I'd love

3:05 to eliminate the phone alto together,

3:06 you know, for securing that first

3:08 meeting, it's not it's not feasible,

3:10 right? So, you have to give a reason for

3:11 them to pick up. I think you have to

3:13 give value. All right? You have to

3:16 provide something that's of relevance.

3:17 You have to listen to the signals. So,

3:19 the way I'm doing that right now is is

3:22 developing strong lead magnets. It's not

3:24 a brochure. It's a bridge. You know, it

3:26 kind of help it helps the mover buy from

3:29 concern to a specific problem. Once they

3:32 see that gap, the sales conversation

3:34 becomes a lot easier and much more

3:36 useful. So, I've been spending a lot of

3:39 time inside of Claude. I've created

3:41 agents that that enable me to create

3:45 something that is of interest interests

3:48 a business is not creating enough

3:51 revenue for themselves and takes the

3:53 time to look at it. It's a picture

3:54 basically. It's a picture with numbers

3:56 and and letters on it, but it's designed

3:59 to go, okay, I'd like to see the rest of

4:02 this because it's a sneak peek anyway.

4:05 Oh, and I can do that with three data

4:07 inputs.

4:08 >> The customer's name, their LinkedIn

4:10 profile, and their website, and that's

4:13 it.

4:14 >> Yeah. So, it's a it's not a brochure.

4:17 So, what's a key component of it being a

4:19 lead magnet? What makes it not a

4:21 brochure and actually something that's

4:22 more functional for the person receiving

4:24 it? Well, it's about them. It's about

4:26 their business. And it's about um

4:29 potential gaps uh that that I was able

4:32 to find with a prompt that was really

4:35 well written. I mean, like pages and

4:38 pages and pages of prompting. Um and it

4:42 doesn't give the whole thing. So, let's

4:43 just say like one of the things it uh it

4:45 lists their dream 100. Well, it only

4:47 gives the first seven.

4:49 >> Says call, you know, want the whole set

4:51 up a call.

4:52 >> Yeah. Now, would you say um if it's a

4:57 dream 100, would you say that then like

5:00 you would have the AI agent try to

5:02 exclude somebody that they might say

5:03 they already work with or would you say

5:04 that's a good hint that it's you're

5:06 doing correct work if you say this is a

5:08 dream 100 and it just so happens that

5:10 you have somebody they've worked with?

5:12 You know, there's no way. I mean, I it

5:13 would be really tough for me to know

5:15 what c what companies the customer is

5:17 actually working with. So, I think if

5:20 they if they're already working with

5:21 them, that just validates that your data

5:23 is good, that your hypothesis is is on

5:26 target.

5:27 >> Yeah. I mean, you're not going to know

5:28 everyone, but sometimes people put the

5:29 logos of their customers on their

5:31 websites. And I'm wondering if it's like

5:33 good to exclude those ones or make sure

5:35 maybe not all seven that you give them

5:37 are the ones on their website. You're

5:38 like, well, come on now. You're just

5:40 saying who my customers are back to me.

5:42 Um, am I overthinking that? Maybe.

5:45 >> Uh, you know, I I don't know. I mean,

5:47 this is a relatively new concept, but I

5:49 tell you what, it gets traction. It's

5:51 just, you know, I have a very simple

5:52 email that te's up. It says, "Hey, I've

5:54 done some research on your company,

5:56 >> and I found some things that I think you

5:58 be interested. Would you want would you

6:00 would you want to see it?"

6:02 >> You know, it's a it's a one-page quick

6:03 read.

6:04 >> And, you know, they they do. And and but

6:08 here's the other component. If they

6:10 don't respond, yes, I I'm a big fan of

6:13 of like instantly because you can cover

6:15 so much ground um you know, thousands

6:19 and thousands of of messages, but I

6:22 really really specialize. So, I put my

6:24 my my um my prospecting in very tight

6:27 silos. Um and then I provide value if

6:31 they don't respond to the first one. I

6:33 give I give tips and tricks and you

6:36 know, I just give information away. And

6:37 I think that's really there's two

6:39 components that that method is not going

6:41 to work that well for forever. I'm going

6:44 to have to build into it lead signals.

6:46 Okay. So, there's intent signals that

6:48 are happening all over the place, right?

6:50 And I mean, have you dug into this with

6:52 your listeners in the past

6:54 >> a little bit, but keep going for it.

6:56 Let's let's go down the rabbit hole.

6:58 >> So, so my prospects are, you know, their

7:01 their salespeople are bragging about

7:03 wins, you know, on LinkedIn. uh the

7:06 companies are making announcements

7:08 through PR, they are either expanding,

7:11 they're hiring, they're doing all these

7:12 different kind of things that can be all

7:14 sorts of types of triggers that then I

7:17 can incorporate into my messaging to

7:19 them either via email or via LinkedIn

7:22 automation.

7:24 I hope LinkedIn isn't listening, but

7:26 it's incredible what you can do. Um and

7:29 uh a lot of lot of um space that you can

7:32 cover to secure that first phone call

7:34 because that's really the challenge

7:35 these days.

7:36 >> Yeah. Yeah. So um you're picking signals

7:40 based on you know hiring and all that.

7:42 Would you say that uh hiring is a signal

7:45 that's unique to the offering that you

7:47 have and it makes it more valuable or

7:48 would you say in general something like

7:50 hiring is kind of ubiquitous and that it

7:52 could be a signal for any uh company and

7:55 any offering that they have? could be a

7:58 signal for a lot of companies and a lot

7:59 of offerings, not every, right? Um um

8:02 but like you know if you're in HR

8:04 they're all right or if you're in

8:05 commercial real estate um if they're

8:08 hiring you know uh salespeople and

8:11 you're a sales excellence leader um

8:14 right and you know that kind of thing.

8:15 So yeah def definitely and there's

8:17 different kind of signal there plenty of

8:18 signals that are not hiring but you know

8:21 there's a lot of them out there.

8:23 >> Yeah. So for an individual who looks at

8:25 that and goes I think I am not you know

8:28 signal like hiring is not a signal for

8:30 me. What would you recommend uh be their

8:32 starting point and their journey of

8:34 understanding what their signal should

8:35 be?

8:37 >> Okay. So I talk about uh AI a lot right?

8:40 So what I would do is I would get with

8:42 Claude and um definitely a paid version

8:46 at least 17 to $20 a month version. Uh,

8:48 oh, by the way, I would get on it before

8:49 the 12th of July, but this this show

8:52 probably isn't gonna um air by then, uh,

8:56 because they're giving they're letting

8:57 you use Fable 5 right now. But what I

8:59 would do is I would say, "You Claude, I

9:02 address Claude." I go, "You are an

9:05 worldrenowned

9:06 sales prospecting sales, you know, uh,

9:09 engagement strategist along the lines

9:12 of, you know, pick out a couple and I'll

9:14 sit on the chat on Chat GBD. go, who are

9:17 the best well-renowned, you know, you

9:18 know, let's just say it's Tom Hopkins

9:19 and Zig Ziggler, which it isn't, you

9:21 know, but I'll name those people and

9:23 I'll say, I need you to help me

9:26 um outline, understand signals that

9:30 might be in the marketplace that I would

9:32 see either on LinkedIn or that or or on

9:35 um Google alerts even uh that would

9:38 identify them as being a potential

9:40 prospect for me. And I'm telling you,

9:43 Claude will do the work for you, you

9:44 know, and then you actually have to

9:46 filter it through your, you know, your

9:47 common sense and see if those things

9:49 make make sense. You you can't take it

9:51 on its own, but I tell you what, there

9:53 are certain things that, you know, I I

9:55 host a podcast. It's called the Anvil

9:57 and Iron Podcast. We talk about um all

9:59 things leadership and innovation. And I

10:03 can create a podcast flow in about 12

10:05 minutes with the same three data points.

10:09 name, business, company name, company

10:12 website, LinkedIn profile because I have

10:15 it all built in what I want to talk

10:16 about and what I think my listeners are

10:18 listening for and but I want to make it

10:20 really relevant to the person on the

10:22 other side. So, it just really cuts a

10:24 lot of the leg work out.

10:25 >> Yeah. Um, it sounds like, you know,

10:28 start there. I love the comment about

10:30 filtering through your own common sense

10:32 and kind of, you know, making sure that

10:33 aligns what you know and hopefully you

10:35 are an expert on, you know, who you're

10:37 trying to reach out to and help. Uh, and

10:39 that should help you also understand

10:40 what the more valuable ideas are. Uh,

10:42 but it's a great like brainstorming

10:44 approach. Now you're say and you've also

10:46 mentioned a couple times you have these

10:48 really long prompts that are sound like

10:50 I'm sure very highly refined. Um, how

10:53 was that process and starting from

10:55 beginning testing with it to getting to

10:57 these super refined impactful prompts

11:00 for you?

11:01 >> Well, sometimes I actually ask it to

11:03 write a prompt for it. This is what I'm

11:05 trying to do. I need you to help me. you

11:07 know, you're a world-class prompt

11:09 engineer and this is exactly what I'm

11:11 looking to accomplish and this is

11:12 exactly the obstacles that I'm facing in

11:15 doing that. So, I really get really

11:17 really detailed telling who it is, what

11:19 I'm looking for, who I'm looking to

11:21 communicate background on me, you know,

11:24 like the other day I just asked my chat.

11:27 I was like, "What do you know about me?"

11:29 Oh my gosh, it was incredible. Yeah,

11:32 >> it was incredible. It even knows it even

11:34 knew that I have a passion project in

11:36 Guatemala for um you know for Hope of

11:39 Life International. Giving that a shout

11:40 out.

11:41 >> Nice. Yeah. I mean it's super powerful

11:43 tool. So you know you're having AI

11:45 continue to help you refine your prompts

11:47 to better use AI. Is this something that

11:49 you're tracking along the way uh to see

11:52 what the results are and like seeing

11:53 like hey the this lead magnet is working

11:56 great um and then being able to refine

11:58 refine refine or was it pretty like out

12:00 of the box like to where you needed it

12:02 to be.

12:04 >> Okay. So I use so I so for those of you

12:07 that don't know instantly it's a um are

12:09 are you familiar with it yourself?

12:11 >> Yeah.

12:12 >> Okay. So it is a um I don't like the

12:15 word cold. Okay. is an outbound email

12:18 solution in a box, right? And um I use

12:22 actually aa that's AI acquisition. I use

12:25 their version of it. It's called uh

12:27 Aquisity. And um

12:31 I've got such incredible metrics. I have

12:33 one lead magnet that gets a 19% open

12:37 rate and about an 8%

12:40 interested rate and about a a 6% booked

12:45 first call rate.

12:46 >> That's great.

12:47 >> So, six out of a hundred and I'm doing

12:49 thousands of these emails, you know. Um

12:53 and so, so yeah, and then here's the

12:56 really cool thing. I use another tool

12:58 called uh I think it's like go DNA. Um

13:01 it's uh which gives me the ability

13:05 I just plug in a name into go DNA and it

13:08 will give me that person's basically

13:11 their makeup and their their personality

13:14 things to to lead with things to avoid

13:18 ways to approach certain topics and you

13:21 know things not to do with that person

13:23 once you you get them. So, I will I will

13:25 run that before I actually have that

13:27 first sales call because I want to know

13:28 if somebody's a real driver versus a

13:31 real um you know, like a intuitive type

13:35 of person or whether they're you know,

13:37 somebody that's going to be like a real

13:38 detail oriented um you know, researcher

13:41 type because I'm not going to it it just

13:43 enables you to communicate in a way that

13:46 helps them best hear you, right? I'm not

13:48 going to talk to really big detail or

13:51 really refined details to a big picture

13:54 guy.

13:55 >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. Right.

13:57 Communicate where meet them where

13:59 they're at. Communicate with them how

14:00 they like to communicate. You know,

14:02 that's just uh just, you know,

14:04 communication 101, not even sales 101.

14:07 >> Correct. Correct.

14:09 Um, and then so you were mentioning, you

14:11 know, as you're working on these lead

14:12 magnets, taking the uh outputs from

14:15 Claude, passing it through your own

14:16 common sense, are you also doing that

14:19 same filtering process or editing

14:21 process when you're sending out these

14:23 emails or do you have it pretty dialed

14:24 where you're just, you know, kind of

14:26 plugandplay and what you're getting out

14:28 of there?

14:29 >> So I I have um so I do iterations as

14:33 well, right? So, my first email has

14:35 anywhere from three to five versions of

14:38 the first one. And I track after the

14:40 first, I guess maybe 200, 300 emails,

14:43 which one hits better. And then I just

14:45 go right in and I kill the ones that

14:47 that were not doing as good as the best

14:50 one. And I just double down or I double

14:52 or triple down on that on that one. Um,

14:55 and you know, there's lots of lots of

14:57 things. So, I always try to make sure um

15:00 no links of any kind in that first

15:02 email. none like just Joe and I put my

15:06 but I do put my phone number my cell

15:08 number because you know and um like I'll

15:11 put um host of the Amble and Iron

15:13 podcast you know so so but no links so

15:17 they can look it up they can find out

15:18 about me or whatever and that just

15:20 obviously creates some either some

15:22 credibility and or thought leadership

15:24 which is probably why you're doing the

15:25 podcast right hey people podcast must be

15:28 smart or know something about their

15:29 field so um yeah that I I do that But

15:33 then as I get further along, you know,

15:35 I'll put my my uh my Zcal link, which I

15:38 actually like better than Calendarly.

15:40 It's free and um and actually enables

15:43 you to brand it really really well. Um

15:46 and give multiple different flavors. But

15:48 I'll put that later and just go, "Hey,

15:50 book us book an 11 minute call with me."

15:53 Um because most people say 10 to 10 to

15:56 15 minutes. They all lie. I can have it.

15:58 I can have an initial call in 11 minutes

16:00 and see if it will buy me another 11

16:02 minutes.

16:03 >> Yeah. I mean, I bet you could probably

16:04 disqualify somebody quicker than that as

16:06 well, too. So, it's saving yourself some

16:08 time.

16:09 >> Oh. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I will

16:11 tell you that's probably my one of my

16:13 weakest points. I can definitely

16:14 disqualify them. I have a hard time

16:17 letting them down. I just like I've had

16:19 >> Yeah.

16:20 you know, it's just I'm I'm kind I

16:23 consider myself to be at least very

16:25 kind.

16:27 >> Yeah. Tell me more about tell me more

16:29 about that uh the struggle around that.

16:32 Like is it because you're like I think I

16:34 could help you but here are the reasons

16:37 I'm concerned like what's what's going

16:38 into that? I know we're kind of

16:40 deviating but I'm curious because I deal

16:41 with that.

16:42 >> That's okay. Um so I went I was talking

16:44 with somebody yesterday and they have a

16:46 great offering. Okay. And this guy, he's

16:50 just a fine fine gentleman. And I mean,

16:52 he's got something that really could

16:54 change people's lives.

16:56 >> He's basically pre-revenue right now.

16:58 And so I said, "Hey, look, I'm going to

17:00 give you in a box because that's what my

17:02 lead magnet does, right? I'm going to

17:04 give you exactly what I do and I'm going

17:08 to tell you how to do it and you can go

17:09 do it yourself." I said, "You probably

17:11 won't and you need somebody like me."

17:14 So, I've got a DIY, a DWY, and a DFY.

17:19 >> You know, you can do it yourself. I'll

17:21 charge you a small amount of money to

17:23 just give you the plan. Okay? A done

17:25 with you, I'll charge you a little bit

17:27 more money. And if it's done for you,

17:28 I'm going to hire somebody on my side,

17:30 one of my VAS to to really execute on

17:33 the entire, you know, um, go to market

17:36 messaging. And then I'll do the sales

17:38 leadership reinforcement if they're a

17:40 large enough company that they have

17:42 salespeople they need they need that or

17:44 if they need to hire a salesperson or if

17:46 they need to hire a BDR or what have

17:48 you. Now my understanding is your

17:50 company you don't actually do the BDR

17:52 work. You you you do everything up until

17:54 that telephone call right for us. Yeah.

17:57 >> Yeah. for you guys because I'm I've

17:59 become a big fan of like uh you know

18:02 companies like Alioop that will actually

18:04 they will they will hammer the phones

18:06 right with the data that you provide and

18:09 and that's the that's the stuff that I

18:11 find found that most you know entrylevel

18:16 sales people don't want to do. They

18:18 don't have the you know the I mean it

18:20 takes some thick skin.

18:22 >> It does. Yeah, you were mention we

18:25 mentioned at the very beginning the

18:27 talking about the phone and its place

18:28 inside like the the prospecting and then

18:30 now we've talked about the email uh and

18:34 providing that lead magnet. Are you how

18:37 are you including the phone during this

18:38 prospecting? Is it part of your

18:40 sequencing or how does it fit within uh

18:42 your current strategy?

18:44 >> Yeah, so I mean it it does fit. It's

18:46 just it's just a smaller portion of it.

18:48 if I based on like the responses I see

18:51 if they reply at all like at all even if

18:54 it's like kind of like they they show

18:56 mild interest because because um my

18:59 platform will show that they're they're

19:01 very interested mildly interested or

19:03 whatever

19:04 >> most people have some kind of signature

19:06 in their replies most and I will pick up

19:09 in the the phone call if they didn't say

19:11 that they definitely want to do it and I

19:12 go you know and I just say hey listen I

19:16 this is kind of one of probably I think

19:17 one of my secret weapons, if you will,

19:20 is that I go, "This is never ever about

19:23 me." But it's something I take very,

19:25 very seriously. If I can help you, I

19:28 will let you know and I'll ask you to

19:30 take some action. If I don't think I can

19:32 help you, I will let you know as quickly

19:35 as possible so we can both go on with

19:36 our lives.

19:38 >> Yeah, I like that uh no pressure

19:40 approach of making it just easy to be

19:42 like, "Hey, like I'm not trying to force

19:44 you to do anything. I'm trying to have a

19:45 conversation here. At the end of the

19:48 day, if we sit down as two rational

19:50 adults and I share some things with you

19:52 and you don't find it compelling, I go,

19:56 the choice is entirely up to you. And

19:59 that usually lets you know, it's okay to

20:00 say no, won't hurt my feelings.

20:03 >> So, what you have, it sounds like, is

20:05 you have the the cold email approach and

20:08 you use that and then you use indicators

20:10 within that that says, "Hey, this

20:12 person's showing interest or whatever it

20:13 is." And then that is what spurs you to

20:15 pick up the phone. But you wouldn't

20:17 necessarily pick up the phone otherwise.

20:19 Is that correct?

20:21 >> Um not not as frequently. Not as

20:23 frequently because because my ICP is too

20:26 big.

20:27 >> I mean my my ideal customer or client

20:29 profile is anybody from I don't know two

20:33 to $22 million um on on the low end. And

20:37 then I have another offering that's

20:38 really kind of in the 50 million to 100

20:41 million range. And that that number is

20:43 just too big.

20:44 >> Yeah.

20:44 >> So So I have to

20:45 >> giant TAM for sure.

20:47 >> Yeah. Yeah. It's giant TAM. And I but I

20:49 but I use I use LinkedIn as a as a tool

20:52 to um you know to surface opportunities

20:56 as well like LinkedIn automation. I

20:59 don't touch LinkedIn until they reply.

21:02 >> Yeah. Um and are you finding that the uh

21:04 the reply rates at LinkedIn are pretty

21:06 decent? I've I've heard varying uh

21:09 metrics at this point in time, but it

21:10 might be a skill thing that's causing

21:12 those.

21:12 >> Yeah. Um I I will tell you here. I I'll

21:15 tell you what not to do

21:16 >> is don't don't create any kind of offer

21:20 or even ask for a call the you know

21:23 within the first I don't know three days

21:25 of them acce accepting your invite. All

21:27 right. Provide something. Here's

21:29 something I thought you might find of

21:30 interest. Also, here's a little a little

21:32 um sneak peek if anybody wants to talk

21:34 to me about it. Um my my organization is

21:37 called Creative Revenue Outsourcing. I

21:39 do use the sales acceleration strategic

21:42 toolkit as part of, you know, as one

21:44 part of my toolkit and then the AI on

21:46 the other end, but I'm like pretty much

21:48 the only Joe Knots on LinkedIn. Here's

21:51 what I I will do is I will like, you

21:53 know, once they accept, I'll like a

21:55 post. I'll even um what I can't remember

21:58 even what it's called because I don't

21:59 physically do it. Like I I'll what is it

22:02 when you vote for somebody's ability on

22:04 something to do well like uh you give

22:06 them a and

22:08 >> let's call it an add boy a

22:10 recommendation or something like that.

22:11 >> Yeah. Yeah.

22:12 >> Yeah. And I've got that all automated

22:14 before I ever ask them to do anything.

22:18 >> Yeah.

22:18 >> And then you know but I and I also lead

22:21 with assessments. My first thing I will

22:23 ask them to do is say, "Hey, I've got a

22:25 a 3 to four minute sales excellence

22:29 um assessment that gives you immediate

22:31 response and I promise you no spam and

22:34 and that does pretty well as well."

22:36 Nice. And so for that one, it sounds

22:38 like um you're not having that same

22:41 amount of claude like prompting into

22:44 creating that lead magnet or are you

22:46 also getting that same level of

22:47 customization when you're doing that

22:48 outreach?

22:51 And

22:51 >> sales acceleration provides us a lot of

22:54 artifacts and a lot of collateral that

22:56 that I will just use as like documents

22:58 and I put always created as links so

23:00 that they can you know hey this is some

23:02 tips and tricks for hiring. This is some

23:04 tips and tricks for you know creating a

23:06 good sales process. This is some tips

23:09 and tricks for creating a dashboard by

23:11 which you can monitor your sales reps

23:13 you know not only their activity but

23:15 their effectiveness you know all that

23:17 kind of stuff.

23:18 >> Yeah. So, you know, you're talking about

23:20 how like your TAM is too large. Your

23:22 total addressable market is this huge

23:24 amount of people. You have to be a

23:25 little bit more efficient in the

23:26 outreach that you're doing. Um, what

23:29 would you say to somebody who has maybe

23:30 not the same sprawl of being able to

23:32 reach out to as many people? Would you

23:34 say, "Hey, this strategy still works or

23:35 would you make adjustments on it?" What

23:37 are your thoughts on that?

23:39 >> I would say layer it in together. um you

23:42 know um I I do believe

23:47 even an email um before the first phone

23:52 call or a couple warm-up emails so that

23:54 even

23:55 >> even if you get are are going through a

23:57 phone tree, right, and somebody you get

24:00 the an actual receptionist. By the way,

24:02 I mean, I'm I'm become so like it drives

24:05 me crazy when I get like an automated

24:08 reception that has to press press three

24:10 because, you know, I've developed some

24:12 voice agents myself like with my own no

24:15 programming capabilities whatsoever.

24:17 Like people think I'm technical. I am

24:19 not technical.

24:20 >> I've created a voice agent. They'll go,

24:21 "Hey, you know, it's like Kramer from I

24:23 don't know anybody that saw Seinfeld.

24:25 Um, why don't you just say what movie

24:27 you want to see?" you know, press three

24:30 for, you know, for uh Dungeons Dragons.

24:33 I can't even think of a movie name. Star

24:34 Wars. Um, you know, versus like, hey,

24:37 just tell me who you want to talk to and

24:38 I'll connect you or, you know, get you

24:40 qu questions answered or what have you.

24:42 But, um, it'll enable that call to go

24:45 through or there's there's a level of

24:48 recognition if it's not the very first

24:50 time that they've ever heard for you.

24:51 >> Yeah. Yeah. I I've run into a couple

24:54 voice agents that have been

24:55 receptionists and uh they've been

24:58 they've been a little rough, but it

24:59 sounds like he figured it out. I

25:01 sometimes just give up on that prospect.

25:02 I'm like, if I'm going to have to try to

25:04 talk this AI agent into being able to

25:06 actually route me correctly, I just I

25:09 can't deal with this right now. I'm just

25:10 going to call somebody else that has a

25:11 better setup agent or at least a phone

25:14 tree at that point in time.

25:16 >> Yeah, there are defin quality. There's a

25:18 big difference in quality because, you

25:20 know, people think, well, oh man, can I

25:22 just get one for like $290 a month or

25:24 something like that?

25:26 >> No, you can't unless you want it to

25:28 suck.

25:29 >> Yeah. And I would say, you know, for

25:32 people prospecting, you know, tiniest

25:33 violin, who cares about that? But maybe

25:36 consider also the fact that your your

25:37 clients are calling you through that

25:39 agent and they might not, you know,

25:41 continue to be your clients if they're

25:42 getting that kind of experience.

25:44 >> Oh, absolutely. It's it's all about, you

25:46 know, the I mean that that is sometimes

25:48 the first um impression that an

25:51 organization or a person gets about your

25:53 company. So yeah.

25:55 >> Yeah, for sure. So um it sounds like you

25:58 know this idea of folding in AI into

26:02 being able to identify uh you know

26:04 things that you can make unique lead

26:06 magnets for making you more efficient.

26:09 That's something that applies to

26:10 everybody. Um, and even if you're going

26:12 after a smaller, you know, addressable

26:14 market, you can still find these

26:16 efficiencies in. Um, would you say

26:18 there's a point where you start

26:20 including more of a human touch um than

26:24 uh what that more that larger audience

26:26 would look for?

26:28 >> Oh, absolutely. Let me give you my

26:29 definition of what AI done right is. AI

26:33 done right

26:35 alleviates the menial

26:38 or the mundane

26:40 >> and increases the meaningful. Okay, so

26:44 it alleviates the menial tasks of what

26:47 it used to take to prep for a call,

26:49 right? to look for those signals to to

26:51 you know find out who their competitors

26:53 are to find out what their what it

26:55 appears to be their their value

26:56 proposition or whatever what appears to

26:58 be important to them or by gosh just

27:02 even just my you know voice notes um

27:05 from from previous calls just to keep

27:07 track of what did we talk about last

27:09 time heck just to have like Fireflies

27:13 directly integrated into your CRM so

27:15 that you don't have to you know that I

27:17 don't have to sit there and go like this

27:19 to put in my notes into the CRM. It has

27:21 the full picture. Um,

27:24 >> so yeah, absolutely. I mean, AI for the

27:28 sake of AI is not the end goal. What I

27:32 believe is you need to have sales

27:33 fundamentals plus the leverage that AI

27:36 gives you plus discipline. All right,

27:40 that equals modern revenue performance.

27:44 >> Yeah. So, yeah, I totally agree with

27:46 that. um between like the menial and the

27:48 meaningful like how would you guide

27:50 somebody who's maybe unsure about what

27:52 that distinction looks like on their

27:54 end?

27:55 Okay. So I this is the best way that

27:58 that I would say say it and like a lot

28:00 of people are worried you know in very

28:02 very many industries or job types or

28:06 whatever that you know AI is going to

28:07 take away their job and I would say this

28:11 is probably about true for almost all of

28:13 them except maybe you know like

28:14 bookkeepers or what have you. No offense

28:16 anybody. I'm sure there's no bookkeepers

28:18 watching this show. um

28:19 >> they're in the wrong spot if they are.

28:21 >> But but Right. But but if I'll put it in

28:24 terms of sales, AI is not going to

28:28 replace salespeople.

28:30 >> Yeah.

28:31 >> In most cases. In some it will. But AI

28:36 or pardon me, sales people that use AI

28:39 will replace sales people that don't.

28:42 Okay? salespeople that use AI

28:45 effectively will replace because will'll

28:49 replace people that don't. And the

28:51 reason is is because they're going to be

28:53 more effective. They're they're going to

28:54 be more efficient. They're going to be

28:55 faster. Um they're going to be more

28:57 prepared and they're going to be better.

28:59 All right. That's it's just like it's

29:01 like going in battle with armor and

29:03 maybe some turbo boosters on your feet

29:05 as well.

29:06 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of the

29:07 things that I think about when I'm, you

29:09 know, using AI in my sales process is

29:11 like, all right, if this would just be

29:12 me googling over and over and over and

29:14 just like reading through articles, I

29:17 can hand off that that off to AI, don't

29:18 have to even think twice about that. And

29:20 just that one small step alone saves so

29:24 much time. And then frankly, I'm not

29:26 that great at Googling stuff. I mean, I

29:28 can find basic things, but the level of

29:30 depth you can get from Claude going out

29:32 and really deep like digging in,

29:34 especially when you're talking about

29:34 like the prompt refinement and having it

29:36 help you write the prompts to be able to

29:37 find the relevant information, like it's

29:40 not only going to make it quicker, it's

29:41 going to make it more effective and it's

29:43 probably going to find stuff that I

29:45 frankly wouldn't be able to find. Uh,

29:47 and so that's an easy one. Just, you

29:48 know, hand that off to AI. It's not you

29:51 googling constantly is not worth your

29:54 time. But your time is is on the other

29:55 side of stuff which is like the human

29:57 connection aspect of it.

29:59 >> You know, I don't Google anymore. I

30:00 don't even go to websites anymore. I

30:02 mean, I never go to website to find out

30:03 pieces of information. I'll just give

30:05 you, you know, I know we're starting to

30:06 land the plane here. I give you an idea.

30:07 Like, yeah, the other day I had to, this

30:09 is just a kind of really good example to

30:11 open people's minds up to like how they

30:13 can be using um how how they can be

30:17 using AI um more than just like a search

30:20 engine or, you know, to find a website.

30:22 Mhm.

30:23 >> I I was standing doing a renovation

30:25 project on one of my properties and uh I

30:28 had all this trash and I'm coming up on

30:30 Labor Day. Um so it's the weekend before

30:33 Labor Day and I'm like, "Oh my gosh,

30:36 they're not Oh." And and this trash day

30:37 was Monday uh for this property. So I

30:40 was like, "They're not going to come get

30:41 this trash." And I mean, I had a lot of

30:42 trash. So I was like kind of figuring,

30:44 "Am I going to load this up and take it

30:46 to the dump?" And I just, you know, I I

30:48 open up Perplexing and I go, I'm in uh

30:51 Duval County, Florida. Do they do they

30:53 pick up trash on on Labor Day? And the

30:57 answer came back, yes. You know what I

30:59 mean? I cannot tell you how many layers

31:02 through the Duvall County website would

31:04 have had to go to get that piece of

31:06 information. you know, so there's just

31:09 like a like the other end of the

31:11 spectrum as far as like not deep

31:12 research, but I need some specific piece

31:14 of information that I'd have to call

31:16 through at least three different screens

31:18 to get to and probably wouldn't even get

31:20 a great answer because I get frustrated

31:22 and like crap, I don't I can't

31:24 >> I mean, this is this is a whole other

31:25 podcast, so I won't I won't go too much

31:27 into it, but I do think websites will

31:29 start getting restructured to be

31:30 optimized for like AI and maybe tiny bit

31:33 there for the human aspect of it, but it

31:36 seems like it's going to They change the

31:38 way that people uh structure their

31:40 digital presence. For sure.

31:41 >> Oh, it's already happening. It's called

31:42 AEO.

31:43 >> Yeah.

31:44 >> Um instead of SEO, it's AEO. So, yeah.

31:47 >> Cool.

31:48 >> We're in a changing world, man.

31:49 >> We are. It's really exciting, though.

31:51 >> It is exciting and it's fun. You mean at

31:54 the end of the day, I mean, I'll just

31:55 kind of land it on my end. I think the

31:57 companies that win over the next few

31:59 years won't be the ones that simply buy

32:02 a bunch of AI tools, right, and just go,

32:04 "Hey, here here they are." They'll be

32:05 the ones that combine strong sales

32:07 leadership

32:09 clear a clear strategy, right, and

32:11 disciplined execution along with

32:14 leveraging AI intelligently. The

32:16 fundamentals still matter. AI just gives

32:18 a prepared team a much stronger

32:21 tailwind. Nice, Joe. It's great. I know

32:24 you can you podcast because I was about

32:26 to say, what's the one big takeaway

32:28 people should have and you already knew

32:30 where I was going and so you landed it

32:32 ahead of me ahead of me. I really

32:33 appreciate that. That's awesome.

32:35 >> It's what I do.

32:36 >> Yeah. All right, Joe. Appreciate you

32:38 coming on.