Joe Ippolito, Part 2: Cold-Call Psychology and Pattern Interrupts

Transcript

0:02 You know, Joe, as we were talking about

0:03 before, uh, you know, you were talking

0:05 about, you know, thinking about what the

0:07 p prospect is thinking about while

0:09 they're getting the cold call and like

0:11 putting yourself in their shoes.

0:12 >> Yeah.

0:13 >> Specifically, you're talking about the,

0:14 you know, managing the amygdala. So, for

0:16 us science geeky people out there who

0:19 are a little like, you know, what does

0:21 that mean? You tell us a little bit more

0:23 about that.

0:23 >> Yeah. Well, um, you know, Austin, like

0:26 prospecting is the most dreaded function

0:29 of any salesperson out there. Like, no,

0:31 no one

0:32 >> likes to do it. No one really wants to

0:34 do it. And

0:37 there's a reason for it. It's usually

0:39 it's it's not as effective as it could

0:41 be.

0:42 >> And a lot of people get kind of a

0:44 misperception on, well, prospecting

0:46 doesn't work and people don't want to

0:49 talk to cold callers and they don't pick

0:51 up the phone.

0:52 >> Yeah. And and there there's a certain

0:54 degree of of truth to that. But what

0:57 they really have to start looking at is

0:59 it's not whether prospecting works or

1:02 not.

1:04 >> Because we know bad prospecting surely

1:07 doesn't work.

1:08 >> Yeah. Yeah.

1:09 >> So, so that's really how they have to

1:10 look at. Now, if you can prospect

1:12 effectively

1:14 and not sell, create some value, have a

1:17 structure, and understand where the

1:20 prospect's coming from and have a game

1:22 plan, prospecting is still a very very

1:25 effective approach and and a lot of the

1:28 companies I've trained over the years

1:30 and still today

1:32 >> um do outbound prospecting to build a

1:34 pipeline.

1:36 >> Yeah. So when you're when you're talking

1:38 about effective versus ineffective, like

1:40 what are some of the key, you know,

1:42 things that are the structure of

1:43 effective?

1:44 >> Yeah, great great. That's a that's a

1:46 great question. So, you know, a couple

1:48 things we think about. Number one, um,

1:52 you've got to have some type of plan

1:54 >> of, you know, how are you going to

1:56 prospect? And, you know, we're not going

1:57 to really talk about that because I

1:59 think it's,

2:00 >> you know, the only thing I'd really have

2:02 to say to that is a lot of people are

2:04 singlethreaded when they prospect. Yeah.

2:06 >> And they send a bunch of emails out and

2:08 expect people to answer emails.

2:10 >> I've done that accidentally or not

2:12 accidentally. I've done that and then

2:14 found out.

2:14 >> Everybody has. Everybody has. [laughter]

2:17 >> Um or they just make calls and and

2:20 that's about it. Or uh they just do

2:23 LinkedIn request or just you know what

2:26 what we find is the plan is the most

2:29 effective like if you looked at each one

2:31 of those and I'm just big picture. Each

2:36 one of those is probably less than 10%

2:40 effectiveness. Way way less than not

2:42 probably way less than 10%.

2:44 >> Leaving voicemails is the least

2:48 effective of getting a call back.

2:50 >> Yeah.

2:50 >> But when you combine them in some type

2:53 of system,

2:55 like if I made a call and then chances

2:59 are you're not going to pick up, but

3:01 then I leave a voicemail.

3:03 >> Mhm.

3:04 But the voicemail is not going to be to

3:07 sell them on the call and say something

3:08 like, "Hey, Austin, it's Joe calling

3:10 from Sandler Training. I'd really like

3:12 to talk to you about enrolling in some

3:14 of our sales training programs. Please

3:16 give me a call back." Yeah.

3:17 >> You know, they're not going to call you

3:19 back. But if I mentioned something and I

3:22 just said, "Hey, Austin, uh, hey, just

3:24 shot you an email um about 10 o'clock.

3:27 Uh, subject line this. Hey, take a look.

3:30 uh if there's any interest um you know

3:32 reach back out to me.

3:36 >> Right? So I'm now tying a voice message

3:40 into curiosity to hook maybe the

3:43 prospect to look at their email and get

3:44 back and see a message. So

3:46 >> that that's what I mean. There's got to

3:47 be a couple of

3:49 >> different ways you approach the

3:50 prospect. So that's number one. So just

3:52 some type of game plan on what you're

3:53 doing. And then um I'm gonna talk about

3:57 really then it comes down to tactics and

3:59 techniques like

4:00 >> how do you open the call because you

4:03 know when you think about the whole

4:05 thing I I actually think like

4:07 prospecting is probably the toughest. I

4:09 mean, brain surgery is ether easier than

4:11 prospect when you think about it because

4:13 at least in brain surgery, the guy is

4:15 like your your your prospect is under

4:18 anesthesia and can't move, can't hurt

4:20 you, [laughter] can't do anything bad,

4:22 right?

4:23 >> And hopefully they said, "Please operate

4:25 on me before you

4:26 >> and they want to be operated on, right?"

4:28 But, you know, you think about, you

4:30 know, most people are going to call to

4:32 someone who's probably super busy.

4:34 They're working. They've got things

4:36 going on in the middle of the day

4:38 >> and now all of a sudden they pick up the

4:40 phone and someone is going going to try

4:43 to sell them something on the phone,

4:46 interrupt their day, take them off some

4:49 tasks and expect to have a successful

4:52 outcome.

4:53 >> Yeah. It it

4:56 So when you get the the data where it's

4:59 one out of a hundred Yeah. Maybe you get

5:02 lucky once in a while. kind of like the

5:04 blind squirrel finding a nut,

5:06 >> but but you need a a plan to open up the

5:09 call effectively.

5:12 And what we talk about, like when you

5:14 think about when that prospect picks up

5:15 the phone, they're not like, "Hey,

5:18 Austin. Yeah, hey, actually, I wasn't

5:20 doing anything today. Yeah, I'd love to

5:21 hear what you're selling and and maybe

5:23 even buy something from you." Right? A

5:26 psychological wall goes up right away.

5:29 And it's it's instant unconscious

5:32 wall, you know, from the amygdala

5:34 >> gets on fire and it's a fight or flight.

5:38 >> And fight is, hey, you know what? We

5:41 we're all set. We don't need this. We're

5:44 already under contract. And flight was

5:47 would be, hey, they just hang up on you,

5:49 say never call again.

5:50 >> Yeah.

5:52 >> So, you know, a lot of people like I

5:53 it's it's funny like, you know, a lot of

5:55 people talk to come, yeah, we get

5:57 scripts and stuff like that. I'm like,

5:59 unless you get the prospect receptive to

6:01 what you're going to say in the

6:02 beginning, there's not one word you can

6:04 say where that prospect is going to say,

6:06 "Oh my god, are you kidding me? That's

6:09 like the best thing I have ever heard.

6:11 No, I would love to buy this today."

6:13 >> Yeah.

6:14 >> It it it just doesn't happen. So, you

6:17 need that little process to get the

6:20 guard down, create value right away,

6:24 right? understand kind of if they have

6:27 any challenges or problems and then not

6:30 sell but just see if there's a problem

6:32 and try to book a meeting. So that would

6:34 be tactics, techniques and then number

6:37 three is just the mindset of going in

6:39 there to a to a prospecting call.

6:42 >> Yeah.

6:43 >> Um just to talk to a minute on that

6:45 because I think that's important too.

6:47 >> Super.

6:47 >> Most sales people go in with the mindset

6:50 that they have to sell something. Mhm.

6:52 >> I mean, that's that that's what everyone

6:54 gets paid for, right? To to sell

6:56 something. So, the mindset is, yeah, I

7:00 know I' I've got to see, you know, I got

7:01 to get their interest and try to sell

7:03 something for them. Well, that's not the

7:05 right mindset because a prospecting call

7:07 is not a place to sell a prospect. It's

7:09 the worst environment possible

7:12 >> that you could try to sell.

7:14 So the mindset around the Sandler

7:18 approach is,

7:20 hey, does this person have a problem

7:23 that I could potentially solve?

7:25 >> Yeah.

7:26 >> And that's all I'm doing. I'm like like

7:28 a doctor trying to diagnose. Hey, look

7:30 at we're just going to have a

7:31 conversation, Austin, and if you're

7:33 having a problem, issue, challenge, or

7:35 goal, or objective that maybe we could

7:37 help you with, maybe we could set a

7:39 meeting and and talk about it.

7:41 >> Yeah. if not for any reason, hey, you

7:44 know where we are if something changes

7:46 down the road and and we can talk back

7:48 then.

7:49 So it there's no pressure and my goal is

7:53 to uncover a problem, challenge, issue,

7:57 a level of curiosity,

7:59 >> and then book a meeting.

8:01 >> Yeah.

8:02 >> It's not to sell. So I don't know if you

8:04 want to talk about that at all or

8:06 comment. Yeah, I'd love to hear a little

8:08 bit more about, you know, as I'm picking

8:10 up the phone because I wanted I wanted

8:11 two things you said there specifically

8:13 talking about the amydala and like the

8:15 wall going up and that's like a basic

8:16 instinct, right? It's fight or flight.

8:19 Everyone's pro pre-programmed to do

8:20 that. It's not been deprogrammed out of

8:22 humans. That's there.

8:23 >> Correct.

8:23 >> So, how do you diffuse that? And then

8:25 also the mindset as you're talking about

8:27 like, hey, you're not there to close the

8:28 deal on the call.

8:30 >> Correct.

8:30 >> To do that. So, I mean, I'd love to hear

8:32 because like as I'm going to pick up the

8:34 phone,

8:35 >> Yeah. What am I thinking about as I'm

8:37 going to pick up the phone? Yeah.

8:38 Specifically, what am I head space

8:39 should I be in? Um, you know, how am I

8:42 understanding their positioning and how

8:44 am I trying to diffuse that wall?

8:46 >> Yeah.

8:48 >> Kind of simpler. Simpler is better.

8:52 >> Yeah.

8:52 >> You know, so usually, and I don't want

8:54 to just say, hey, there's only two

8:56 different object or only two objectives,

8:58 but if you just looked at it, um, well,

9:01 well, let me I'll just go the opposite

9:03 first. If I had the mindset that, oh,

9:05 I've got to sell this guy. I've got to

9:07 bring in this account. I've got to close

9:09 some opportunities.

9:12 If I have that mindset going in, what

9:14 what are some of the behaviors that

9:15 would follow that mindset if I thought,

9:17 "Oh, I got to sell this guy. I got to

9:19 lock him down."

9:20 >> What What do you think that would drive

9:22 the salesperson to do?

9:24 >> Just pushy immediately to the pitch.

9:26 Just trying to get the the credit card

9:28 out

9:30 >> second, right?

9:30 >> Yeah. push push like a like a like a

9:33 bulldozer push right through the call.

9:35 >> Yeah.

9:35 >> If I just said, "Okay, I'm going to

9:38 bring in a curiosity mindset and I'm

9:41 calling this person and I'm going to

9:43 figure out based on what I do like I do

9:45 sales training. I'm going to call a VP

9:48 of sales, a CRO or CEO and wonder, hey,

9:51 how well is their sales team doing?

9:54 >> Are there any challenges or problems

9:55 they're having that they're trying to

9:56 improve upon?"

9:58 So my first objective is to see if

10:00 there's any problem, issue, challenge,

10:03 goal or objective.

10:04 >> Yeah.

10:05 >> Around my service. The second thing is I

10:09 I don't want to sell at this point. What

10:12 I'd like to do is find out if there is

10:14 any

10:16 curiosity or need around a problem that

10:18 I can uncover. Book a meeting.

10:21 >> Yeah.

10:22 >> To set up now a sales call in the right

10:25 type of environment.

10:27 So the other thing is and a lot of

10:29 people make mistakes this whole and

10:31 we're we're talking about calling the

10:33 same thing would apply whether some

10:36 people still do walk-ins to companies

10:38 >> some people go to trade shows uh it was

10:42 to be used some people do networking the

10:45 same concept's going to be you sending

10:47 an email to attract people into the

10:50 conversation so it applies all the way

10:53 around

10:55 Um, so

10:58 the first thing we're going to want to

11:00 do is get that guard down.

11:03 >> Mhm.

11:04 >> Okay. And because when I open up the

11:07 call, so I'm sorry. So we we talked

11:09 about the objectives, finding a problem,

11:11 booking a meeting, three minutes only.

11:14 >> Yeah.

11:15 >> Three, four maybe. Because if I go over

11:18 that 3 to four minutes, what does that

11:21 the prospecting call turns into a what?

11:25 >> Really rushed discovery call, I would

11:27 assume.

11:28 >> Yeah. It turns right into a sales call.

11:30 >> Yeah. [laughter]

11:32 >> Anything longer, it's a it comes to

11:34 sale. You do not want a sales call.

11:36 >> Yeah.

11:37 >> So that's what I said. Whether

11:39 networking, trade shows, is there a

11:41 problem? Engage them enough. Book a next

11:44 meeting. So the two objectives, find a

11:46 problem, book a meeting.

11:48 >> Yeah.

11:49 >> So that that that would be the three

11:51 things we do. So plan, tactics,

11:53 techniques, and then mindset going in.

11:56 But if I go with a mindset going in,

11:57 hey, I'm just trying to find a problem,

12:00 and I'm going to ask them questions. I'm

12:02 not putting any weight on my shoulders

12:05 to close anything.

12:07 >> And I know, hey, you know, some people

12:09 will have a problem. Maybe I can talk

12:11 and help them. Some won't. Who cares?

12:15 What's next?

12:16 >> Yeah.

12:17 >> Because the other thing about

12:18 prospecting is afterburn. After getting

12:21 rejected, hung up on, same thing. We're

12:24 all, you know, you know, avoiding

12:26 excuses, we're all set, we're already

12:27 using. It's like, how can you bring the

12:29 same energy to the, you know, it's it's

12:32 tough.

12:32 >> Yeah. So, you know, the genius behind

12:35 Sandler is not only the skills to do

12:38 this effectively, but keeping the

12:41 salesperson's head in a great space.

12:44 >> Yeah.

12:44 >> To make that next call.

12:47 So, th those are the three things. So,

12:49 we you talked about, you know, how do

12:50 how do you do that, right? Prospect

12:53 picks up the phone and

12:57 how do we, you know, I like to just say

12:58 the the amygdala goes on fire. They they

13:01 they pick it up and we say, "Hey,

13:04 Austin, how are you today?" And the

13:06 prospect's thinking, "I don't know this

13:08 person."

13:10 >> Yeah.

13:10 >> Right.

13:11 >> What do you want from me?

13:12 >> They sense tonality, that singy songy,

13:15 excited voice.

13:17 >> Yeah.

13:18 >> Um and then they might say something

13:20 like, "Hey, I'd like to tell you about,"

13:22 and they start pitching right away. So,

13:26 subconsciously, it's the fight or

13:27 flight. you know, it's either we're

13:30 going to push or we're going to run. So,

13:34 what we have to do is we we have to, you

13:37 know, and when we do this, I'm walking

13:38 through like a this is a second by-

13:41 second process,

13:43 >> right?

13:44 >> I have to break that pattern.

13:47 You you mentioned I said I forget what

13:48 words you said, but I I I love what you

13:51 said kind of was it a triggered response

13:52 or a uh what did

13:55 >> I mean I don't know instinctual? Well, I

13:57 mean, that's just basically what

13:58 happens, right? Like,

13:59 >> yeah, it's [laughter] just the

14:00 prospect's not even thinking about doing

14:01 it. They just do it. It's a trigger

14:03 response.

14:05 >> So, the first thing I'd want to do is I

14:07 have to be different. I have to break

14:10 that response pattern.

14:13 >> So, we we do that thing. You know, one

14:14 of the skills we have at Sandler is

14:17 called this thing a pattern interrupt.

14:19 is that I want to break that pattern of

14:22 the prospect going fight or flight and

14:26 the mindset going is is creating

14:28 curiosity. I I need to keep the prospect

14:31 curious to take them through this little

14:34 stage.

14:34 >> Yeah.

14:35 >> Through these stages.

14:37 So

14:39 I could be I mean there's a many

14:41 different like pattern interpreters.

14:43 I'll give you one example

14:45 and it's just being disarmingly honest.

14:49 Yeah.

14:51 >> What I'm going to do is I'm going to

14:52 give you like a little pattern interrupt

14:54 and you know and then in and the Sandler

14:56 methodologies this thing we call upfront

14:58 contracts getting agreements and and

15:00 things like that. And a lot of this is

15:01 researched and one of the things we

15:03 found is what prospects don't like about

15:06 receiving prospecting calls is number

15:09 one the salesperson doesn't stop

15:11 talking.

15:12 >> The call can go on forever. It's a total

15:16 pitch

15:18 and there are no outcomes other than buy

15:21 or or fly.

15:23 So, I'm going to I'm going to give you a

15:26 I'm going to set the framework so I can

15:29 get rid of that. So, I I'll just do a

15:31 quick roleplay. If you were my my

15:33 prospect, Austin, I'm calling you.

15:35 >> Go for it. Yeah.

15:36 >> And the ring ring ring. Hey. Hey,

15:37 Austin.

15:38 >> Yeah, this is Austin.

15:40 >> Hey. Yeah, Austin. Um, hey, Joe Epel

15:43 calling. Um, hey, we've we haven't

15:45 spoken before. Do you mind if I I take a

15:47 minute and tell you the reason for my

15:48 call?

15:49 >> Sure. Yeah, why not?

15:51 >> Okay.

15:53 So, if you break that down, what didn't

15:55 you hear?

15:57 What didn't I say? Now, I I did it.

16:00 That's I'm with Sandler Training. What

16:02 didn't I say?

16:02 >> You didn't say anything about what you

16:04 know who you were with, you know, what

16:06 your full intention of was. You didn't

16:08 even like give like a hint a hint at

16:10 what you were going to talk about. You

16:12 were saying, "Can I tell you about

16:13 that?" and then left it open is what it

16:15 like. Yeah.

16:16 >> So, it's so funny because it's so simple

16:19 and so many salespeople have a a tough

16:23 time getting over that hurdle. Do not

16:25 give your company name.

16:27 >> Yeah.

16:28 >> Because if I call and say my company

16:31 name, what am I really saying behind my

16:35 company name? I'm here to do what?

16:37 >> Yeah. You're trying to sell them

16:39 something.

16:40 >> I'm going to sell them something. going

16:40 right into the pattern that you're

16:42 trying to interrupt. Right.

16:43 >> The amygdala is exploding. In fact, I'd

16:45 also argue that the top of their skull

16:47 is just jumping off their brain is

16:49 jumping off the top of their head.

16:51 >> Yeah.

16:52 >> So, again,

16:54 I I have to avoid that. So, by just

16:56 saying, "Hey, Joe Pledo calling Austin.

16:58 Um, hey, you know, we've never met

17:00 before. Do you mind if I take a moment

17:02 and tell you the reason for my call?"

17:04 >> Yeah.

17:05 What what am I what what kind of So, by

17:08 the way, what do you notice about my

17:09 tonality?

17:11 It's

17:12 >> polite, conversational. It looks like,

17:15 hey,

17:16 >> you don't

17:17 >> Yeah.

17:18 >> Right.

17:19 >> So, that that's

17:22 I did my little upfront conscious. Hey,

17:23 take a moment, tell you the reason for

17:25 my call. And then you could even add

17:27 something like and then, hey, you could

17:28 decide if it's worth any any, you know,

17:30 it's worth continuing. Mhm.

17:33 >> That's like a 100enter the press. Sure.

17:36 >> Yeah.

17:37 >> And even our little roleplay, did it not

17:39 cook some curiosity?

17:40 >> Yeah. Absolutely.

17:41 >> Yeah. So now at least they're somewhat

17:44 receptive to the message.

17:47 So now I have to give it up, right? In

17:50 most cases, now I have to tell them,

17:52 hey, my company is Sandler Training.

17:55 Now, watch what I'm going to do because

17:57 a lot of things what prospects don't

17:58 like is they we don't personalize it at

18:02 all. We sell one way to everybody

18:06 >> and we don't have credibility coming

18:08 into the call. They don't know who we

18:10 are. So, I'll pretend you're a VP of a

18:13 technology company.

18:15 >> Okay. And I might say something. Yeah.

18:18 So, hey, hey, Austin. Um, my my company

18:20 is Sandler Training and we help

18:22 companies build high performance sales

18:23 and sales leadership teams

18:26 and typically when I I get to talk to

18:28 VPs of sales um I hear a couple of

18:31 things out there in the marketplace all

18:33 the time and what they're telling me is

18:36 is number one they they probably already

18:38 do some training and maybe even have an

18:40 experienced team

18:43 >> but for whatever reason they still have

18:46 challenges prospecting effectively.

18:49 they just can't get their guys to get

18:52 enough new meetings, so their pipeline

18:54 isn't full of opportunities.

18:56 >> Or maybe number two, you know, they're

18:58 they're getting a lot of opportunities,

19:00 but the deals are just taking forever to

19:02 close. They're not getting in front of

19:04 the right people.

19:06 >> Or number three, you know, they're

19:07 they're getting in front of the right

19:09 people and they are closing business,

19:12 but they're constantly discounting and

19:14 having to negotiate pricing. and maybe

19:16 they don't know how to create enough

19:18 value. Um, I don't want to pretend to

19:21 know your business, Austin, but before I

19:23 ramble on about Sandler and what we do,

19:25 any of that jump out at you?

19:28 >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Do you want me to be

19:30 the the

19:31 >> Well, yeah, you you can you can or you

19:33 can.

19:33 >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, yeah. My uh my

19:35 guys aren't getting enough first

19:37 meetings.

19:38 >> Okay.

19:38 >> So, there so so there we go. I've

19:41 identified a problem

19:43 >> and now at least

19:45 the other thing is you know when BDRs

19:49 SDRs you know they they get meetings a

19:51 lot of times they are unqualified

19:53 meetings they they couldn't tell if an A

19:55 picks up the meeting or an account

19:57 manager they they they don't you know

19:59 hey why are they meeting well I don't

20:00 know they just were curious on meeting

20:03 now I have a qual a partially qualified

20:06 meeting

20:07 >> that this person has a problem So, I've

20:10 I've changed and switched up the whole

20:13 dynamic of this meeting. Now, if you

20:16 noticed what I did at the beginning of

20:17 that call,

20:19 I took away an objection from the

20:23 prospect that we would see in our world.

20:25 Like, if we if we talk to prospects,

20:27 they'd say, "Hey, Joe, we already do

20:29 some training

20:30 >> and hey, you know, we already have an

20:32 experienced team." Now, from my

20:35 experience, I know that the training

20:37 they're probably doing is probably not

20:39 like what we do,

20:41 >> right? And having an experienced team

20:44 doesn't mean it's a high performance

20:46 team.

20:48 So, I took that away from them by

20:50 acknowledging, hey, here's what I'm

20:52 hearing out there

20:54 >> and using a Sandler concept of a third

20:56 party story.

20:59 Okay? So that keeps the amygdala settled

21:02 down because I'm not saying hey Austin

21:04 your team is not this you know this is

21:07 what I'm saying hey here's what other

21:09 VPs are I'm hearing from other VPs and

21:12 CRO's so now psychologically

21:16 it's social validation of others like

21:18 them

21:20 >> so by by acknowledging I have a lot of

21:23 conversations I have I've have

21:24 credibility and expertise

21:28 >> and now I make it easier for the

21:29 prospect to open up and say, "Hey, you

21:31 know what? Yeah, those guys have that

21:33 problem. Hey, you know what? I do, too."

21:36 >> Yeah.

21:37 >> And so, I take the objection away and

21:40 then get into three problems that I

21:43 could potentially solve for them.

21:45 >> And a thing I've heard about that as

21:47 well from other, you know, people is

21:49 that um it also is giving them a

21:51 compliment. So you're keeping their

21:52 amydala, you know, settled as well

21:54 because you're going, you have a good

21:56 team, you're doing training, you're

21:57 doing a good job, but here's a hump that

21:59 I can help you with. So you're going

22:01 like not coming in and attacking and

22:03 being like, you suck. You suck. Now give

22:05 me money. It's hey, you're doing a great

22:07 job, but maybe we can fix just this.

22:09 >> That's where we're in, right?

22:10 >> You're settling the amydala by saying,

22:12 hey, you're probably doing a good job.

22:13 Probably already do some training.

22:15 probably getting a lot of this

22:18 uh but on occasion

22:20 and now I'm go from my experience

22:24 >> and calling in that vertical or space

22:26 I'm going to call out problems that I've

22:28 seen which is really my expertise as a

22:31 salesperson is the knowledge I have from

22:34 calling on hundreds of companies

22:37 >> or any salesperson I don't think a

22:39 salespeople they have the mindset that

22:42 like hey you know they've called you

22:44 know think about some sales teams doing

22:46 50 calls a day and things like that.

22:48 There's a lot of experience in the

22:49 verticals and what they know and their

22:51 knowledge of the industry.

22:52 >> Yeah.

22:54 >> But they never they never let that come

22:56 out because they're constantly pitching

22:57 instead of hey, here's what we're seeing

22:59 out in this vertical. Here's what we're

23:01 seeing in this space. Hey, are you

23:03 seeing any of the same stuff?

23:05 >> Mhm.

23:06 >> If you are and you want to talk, maybe

23:09 we should set a meeting.

23:11 If you aren't and things are perfect,

23:13 hey, no problem. Hope Austin, we created

23:16 some value for you either way. If

23:18 something changes, hey, you know where

23:19 to find me.

23:21 >> Yeah, it's, you know, I hear a lot about

23:23 the idea of like a a lead magnet, right?

23:27 And the idea of having like you got a

23:28 lead with some sort of value, you got

23:30 to, you know, come with something to

23:31 give to them. And within your just your

23:34 quick example, what I'm al what I'm

23:36 hearing is that lead magnet. probably a

23:38 terrible way to to phrase it, but like

23:40 you're bringing value, which is, hey, I

23:42 have market data for you. I'm bringing

23:44 this market data back to you, and I've

23:46 told it to you within 20 seconds. Uh,

23:49 and now you have market data, and I

23:51 haven't sent you some PDF or I haven't,

23:52 you know, made you go watch a video.

23:54 I've given you market data within 20

23:56 seconds. And then I've but I've also

23:57 asked you permission to give you that

23:58 data. And then I've got my next quickly.

24:01 >> I mean, what what can I say to create

24:03 value? Hey, Austin, we're the number one

24:05 sales training firm in the world. We

24:07 we're the best thing that there's all

24:09 our value take, you know, isn't that

24:11 great.

24:12 >> Yeah.

24:12 >> The value is your knowledge. Sharing

24:14 your value and experience with that

24:17 prospect

24:18 >> and telling them what you're seeing. And

24:21 look, at the end of the day, companies

24:23 are going to work on problems first.

24:26 >> Yeah.

24:26 >> Right. They solve problems first. All

24:28 whoever you're calling on, they have a a

24:30 a priority list of a million things.

24:33 Mhm.

24:33 >> And the priority list, the top of that

24:35 priority list is work on these problems.

24:37 Let's fix this.

24:39 >> Yeah.

24:40 >> So, I want to find out if I can get on

24:42 that list and make them aware of maybe a

24:45 problem they weren't aware of or dig in

24:47 a little bit, which I would by I'm not

24:48 doing the end of the call because

24:50 there's a little more to it that we

24:51 would continue with.

24:53 >> But I'm del that's the value I'm

24:55 delivering to them.

24:57 >> Yeah. I think

24:58 >> it's interesting too because you're

25:00 doing you're keeping it very like

25:03 problem oriented, example oriented.

25:05 You're not telling them how you're going

25:06 to solve it at all. And it's making it

25:09 so it's easier to say like to keep it

25:11 open so you can actually have a real

25:12 discovery call to really dig in and find

25:14 where you attach to what their biggest

25:16 problems are. Or maybe you don't at all

25:18 and then you can just end the

25:19 conversation then. But instead of having

25:20 it be in that initial amygdala amygdala

25:23 unsettled at any point in timeation,

25:26 you're letting it be for they've set

25:28 aside the time. They've agreed to it.

25:30 They're in control of that time versus

25:32 being

25:33 >> there's the other thing allowing them to

25:35 feel in control.

25:36 >> Yeah.

25:37 >> Have it just conversational.

25:39 And and the other thing I'm not attached

25:41 to the outcome.

25:43 >> Yeah. I'm,

25:45 you know, the it's like why would I

25:48 expect to call a hundred people and

25:50 they're all going to buy? I mean, I

25:51 don't know. But I I know if they have a

25:54 problem, if it makes sense to get a next

25:56 step and set up a meeting, we can do

25:58 that. Yeah.

25:58 >> If they're not, then that's fine. But I

26:03 do know something. In most cases, if you

26:06 know the business and the industry,

26:08 things change.

26:09 >> Yeah. And and no matter what, I want to

26:11 be the guy they call back. For whatever

26:13 reason, this wasn't a good time or they

26:15 they remembered the call. I was

26:17 different than everybody else.

26:20 >> I gave them some market data and

26:22 information. I created equal business

26:24 stature.

26:26 >> And if they're interested, hey, great.

26:28 I'm happy to book a meeting. If they're

26:29 not, no problem. Next case, does this

26:33 guy have a problem?

26:34 >> Yeah.

26:34 >> Who find the problem? And then you'll

26:37 find that meeting. Well, when you

26:39 approach it this way that you're talking

26:41 about, you really are, if you truly are

26:44 curious, you really are finding out

26:46 whether or not this is a problem for

26:47 them. And whether or not you have an

26:48 amazing business that is number one and

26:50 has all the widgets and all the great

26:52 stuff, that really might not be a

26:53 problem for that company. Not every

26:55 company has that problem.

26:56 >> And if it is a problem, it also might be

26:58 so low on the list that it really isn't

27:01 right for them to be addressing it.

27:03 Like, I get these uh calls for people

27:05 wanting to sell me business insurance,

27:06 and I'm like, "Hey, man, we're a

27:08 startup. If somebody sues us, we're

27:09 going under. Like [laughter]

27:11 >> there's no there's no point in having

27:13 this insurance.

27:16 [laughter]

27:17 >> Well, I no I love that because like you

27:19 know Sandler we've got obviously great

27:21 methodology and system but it's guided

27:24 by these rules and one of the Sandler

27:27 rules is people buy for their reasons

27:30 not yours.

27:31 >> Yeah.

27:32 >> So and everyone has their different

27:34 reasons. So when you say how can you

27:36 possibly pitch someone on a call when

27:40 you don't understand if there's a

27:41 problem and then what are their reasons

27:44 for the problem and how is it impacting

27:46 them?

27:46 >> Yeah. H

27:48 >> it it just it's senseless. It's it's

27:50 senseless.

27:51 >> Yeah.

27:52 >> And that's so that that's a good mindset

27:54 that you just u articulated.

27:57 >> Yeah. And then so when but you did say I

27:59 have a precautionary tale at the

28:00 beginning of this which is don't let

28:02 this become more than three minutes or

28:03 even I mean I assume even less would be

28:05 great as long as you get that meeting.

28:07 >> Yeah.

28:08 >> What would be uh techniques that

28:10 somebody could employ to make sure it

28:11 doesn't start turning into a 15inute

28:14 discovery call and all of a sudden

28:16 you're going past what your intended

28:17 goal is.

28:18 >> Yeah. So that that's a great and I say

28:20 three minutes. Look there's all sales is

28:22 situational, right? So there's no hard

28:24 clock stop, but you know, it's it's just

28:26 in the back of my head. I do not want to

28:28 get into sales mode.

28:30 >> Yeah.

28:31 >> Okay. Now, I did not give you the end of

28:34 that call. And if the prospect gave me

28:37 that problem, how would I would then

28:39 handle it with a few additional

28:41 qualifying questions,

28:43 >> then book a meeting.

28:45 >> But there's a segue point. There's an

28:47 inflection point where at some point I'd

28:49 ask you a couple of questions to probe a

28:51 little bit deeper.

28:53 Okay. And then I might just say, "Hey,

28:54 hey, Austin, look, I I know I just

28:56 called you out of the blue. Hey, can I

28:57 make a suggestion?"

29:00 >> Yeah.

29:01 >> Now,

29:03 I asked a question and I I zipped up.

29:05 I'm silent.

29:07 >> Again, that's a 95enter. Yeah. Sure.

29:11 Sure. Then I'll I'll book my meeting.

29:13 So, and again, that that those are my

29:15 words, but it's a nice like, hey, let

29:18 okay, let's just stop. I've got what I

29:20 need. I this person has a problem. I've

29:23 I've uncovered some of the impacts of

29:25 that problem and I just might say, "Hey,

29:27 hey, Austin, can I can I make a

29:29 suggestion here? I know I caught you

29:30 totally out of the blue.

29:32 Why don't we book a 30 minute call? We

29:35 can further explore some of those

29:37 challenges so I can get a better

29:39 understanding of them. At the same time,

29:41 answer any questions you have about

29:42 Sandler. And then from there, if there's

29:45 any mutual interest, we could decide

29:47 what next steps would possibly look

29:48 like. And if not, no harm, no foul.

29:51 Either way, you'll get additional value

29:53 from this call.

29:54 >> Yeah,

29:56 I think that's great. It's it's

29:58 >> no pressure.

29:59 >> Yeah.

30:00 >> Um,

30:02 some will, some won't. So, what? Who's

30:05 next?

30:06 >> Onto the onto the next one.

30:07 >> But I can I'll I'll raise

30:10 significantly my conversion rates

30:13 through this little somewhat of a

30:16 process that I gave you. significantly

30:20 and it's not going to be about making

30:22 more calls, it's be about being more

30:25 effective with the calls you're making.

30:28 >> Mhm.

30:29 >> So that's that's basically um Yeah, I

30:34 mean the the the the prospect it's

30:36 magic. It's it's magic when you know not

30:38 only for the salespeople but obviously

30:40 the results but keeping them in a good

30:42 place and at the same time it's building

30:45 their skills

30:47 because a lot of BDR and SDR they don't

30:49 want to stay BDRs forever. They want to

30:52 get promoted to AEES and AM's and now

30:54 they're learning the same skill set on a

30:57 cold call that would be applied in a

30:59 sales deal only obviously it's you know

31:03 it's it's more it's it's I don't want to

31:06 say elaborated that's not the right word

31:07 but the the sales call is a condensed

31:10 version of the methodology that they

31:12 would run on a on a on a meeting.

31:16 >> Yes. So they're learning specific skills

31:19 that are replicable

31:21 >> that would now be applied to the meeting

31:23 but expanded upon.

31:24 >> Yeah. I'll say uh for anyone listening I

31:28 have gone from the don't know how to

31:30 make a good cold call just pitch

31:31 pitching right away to using this type

31:33 of method and I've learned some great

31:35 nuances here. Um uh it's worked for me

31:38 like it's completely changed my ability

31:40 to make calls to feel comfortable making

31:42 them because the permission structure

31:43 makes me feel more comfortable.

31:45 >> Yeah. And then just the effectiveness

31:47 and getting actual conversions into

31:49 first book meetings. I mean it's it's

31:51 just night and day. It's not even it's

31:53 not even the same.

31:54 >> I I think the one thing that makes

31:56 Sandler kind of unique is you know we we

31:58 we don't get you know Sandler's not

32:01 giving us we're not sitting on the couch

32:02 getting leads from Sandler to do

32:04 training.

32:05 >> We we sell to train. So what we talk

32:09 about doing and applying with the

32:11 Sandler methodology, we also do that to

32:14 build our book of business and do what

32:16 our customers are doing. I had to make

32:19 50 calls a day to build my book of

32:22 business. So I had to use these skills.

32:24 So when we're with the team, it's not

32:27 we're giving them everything that we do

32:29 on a day-to-day basis that have refined

32:32 over the years through hundreds of

32:34 trainers around the world to get the

32:37 best possible practice and methodology

32:39 and outcome out there. So we like to say

32:42 we kind of eat our own dog food.

32:44 >> I like drink your own champagne, but

32:46 both work.

32:46 >> That's better. I'd rather drink my own

32:48 I'd rather drink my own champagne than

32:50 eat my own dog food.

32:51 >> Either way, you're practicing what you

32:53 preach and it shows. practice what you

32:54 preach. Yes, that's even better. That's

32:56 even better.

32:57 >> So, uh, so we're up on time, but before

32:59 I let you go, I want to ask the same

33:00 question I ask everybody, which is if

33:02 somebody's listening in and they're

33:03 going to take one thing away from this

33:04 and make sure that they apply this to

33:07 like their daily practice or to their

33:08 team or to their business in some way,

33:11 what is that one thing that they really

33:12 need to take away from this

33:13 conversation?

33:15 >> I mean, that's going to be more from

33:17 what they take away. I think we find

33:19 like different people take away

33:20 different things.

33:21 >> Yeah.

33:22 >> Right. I mean, if you you're asking me,

33:25 so I tell you, do not sell on a

33:27 prospecting call.

33:30 >> Just keep it into the goal of this is to

33:32 be curious and to book a meeting,

33:34 >> right?

33:34 >> Stop.

33:35 >> Now, now granted, you know, let me just

33:36 make one nuance because like I said,

33:38 sales is situational. You could be in

33:41 some business with a one call close.

33:43 >> Yeah.

33:44 >> Okay. But when you're talking about

33:47 companies where you're not selling on

33:50 price, there's some dollars involved.

33:54 It has to do about learning about their

33:56 business and establishing long-term

33:58 relationships where there's ongoing

33:59 revenue opportunities.

34:01 >> Yeah,

34:02 >> this is the way you have to go. I don't

34:04 want to the one call close guys diff

34:07 some of the same things obviously a

34:09 little bit different. Um, but the

34:13 regardless it's it's building that

34:15 relationship. If they go with us, set a

34:17 meeting, great. If they don't, also not

34:20 not that's great, too. I want to leave a

34:23 good impression.

34:24 Get those call backs when something

34:27 changes down the road and remember that

34:28 experience they had with um a non

34:33 salesperson salesperson.

34:35 >> Yeah. Well, I'll say I've called

34:37 somebody six months later and I didn't

34:39 expect them to remember me and they did

34:40 and we were pleasant time and we were

34:43 pleasant the second time and I've

34:44 actually had a few of those turn into

34:45 conversations

34:47 >> because you know same and I just

34:48 expected them to forget me and they

34:50 didn't.

34:51 >> Great. Well, have things changed?

34:52 They're like actually

34:54 >> and it doesn't happen often but you know

34:56 it is you know still money in the bank

34:58 to be able to have started the

34:59 relationship and maintained it. And

35:01 somebody saying no is part of starting

35:03 that relationship.

35:04 >> That that's part of it's part of sales.

35:06 I mean it's you know I I was just

35:08 noticing one fact. I don't know if we're

35:09 still recording or off.

35:11 >> We are we are keep going.

35:12 >> You follow do you follow like baseball?

35:14 Major League Baseball?

35:17 >> Very very lightly.

35:18 >> Okay. I don't know where this statistic

35:20 came from. I'm not going to give a

35:22 number because it was so low it was

35:23 shocking.

35:25 There are way fewer 300 hitters today

35:29 than there were like 10 years ago.

35:32 >> Like 300 was the magic, you know, 300

35:35 you're in the

35:35 >> That's All-Star, right? Hall.

35:37 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, like the the

35:40 numbers are out outrageous of how few

35:43 players now bat 300.

35:46 >> Mhm.

35:46 >> And they're the best at the game

35:50 that they could be.

35:51 >> Yeah. and and we're we're kind of in

35:53 that same ballpark.

35:55 You know, I'm not going to say we, you

35:57 know, we're not going to bat

35:59 um 500, you know, making prospecting

36:02 calls, but you know, we've got a

36:04 process, we got a system, we roll

36:06 through that as as best as effectively

36:08 as we can. We adapt it. We're

36:11 situational with it, and we we will we

36:13 will have that high batting average and

36:15 succeed.

36:16 >> Yeah.

36:18 Well, with that, Joe, I really

36:19 appreciate you coming on, sharing some

36:21 wisdom, and having a great conversation

36:23 about prospecting.

36:24 >> Great, Austin.