John Noonan on Founder-Led Sales, ICP, and the Sales Playbook

Transcript

0:02 We have another episode of Tailwind.

0:04 Today we're joined by John Nunan. John,

0:06 tell us a little bit more about yourself

0:07 and what you do for your clients.

0:09 >> Thank you, Austin. Appreciate being

0:10 here. Um, yeah, I am the founder of

0:13 Growth Plan Partners and we are a sales

0:16 consultancy that I started about 5 years

0:18 ago. So, give you a little background

0:20 maybe. I I spent 35 years in corporate

0:22 America mostly as an EVP of sales and

0:26 marketing. So, I ran sales and

0:27 marketing. I happen to have my MBA in

0:29 marketing and finance and uh started

0:32 with the billion-dollar companies. Had

0:33 some fun over there. Then uh one of the

0:36 divisions I was with got bought by

0:38 private equities. So the second half of

0:39 my career I worked on the executive

0:42 teams of companies owned by private

0:44 equity companies where you know we had

0:45 some skin in the game. We had investment

0:47 in there as well. And um I again ran

0:51 sales and marketing for those

0:52 organizations and you know drove our

0:55 growth looked at new divisions started

0:57 several divisions etc etc. So 35

1:00 successful years having fun doing that.

1:02 Uh but I'm one of those nuts with 3

1:04 million miles in the air and two years

1:06 in hotel rooms throughout my career and

1:09 along came co and I think a lot of us

1:11 were just like you know I am done doing

1:14 that kind of work and and that kind of

1:16 wear and tear on the body. So, you know,

1:18 I was like, what do I want to do? And

1:20 literally, I sat down right after co and

1:22 went on the New York State website. I

1:24 happen to live in White Plains, New

1:25 York. And formed Growth Plan Partners.

1:28 And my concept was simple that I had run

1:30 sales and marketing for several of

1:33 companies that are industry leaders

1:35 today. Okay? And I was just going to

1:38 contact the tier 2 and tier three

1:41 companies there and say, "You saw what I

1:43 was able to do. I'm the guy that was at

1:44 all the trade shows. you know, I can

1:47 help. And that's how I started my

1:48 business. That was that was really my

1:50 intent was just to go out and kind of

1:52 work in the industries that I had come

1:54 from. But then, uh, you know, a funny

1:56 thing happened after you get a couple of

1:58 clients, you realize how much work your

2:00 direct reports actually did for you when

2:03 when you were in corporate America and

2:04 you're like, I have to do this work,

2:06 too. You know, I can't just go out and

2:08 do the sales side and do all this kind

2:10 of stuff. I've got to produce all of

2:12 this. So, um, I actually at that point

2:14 then partnered with an organization

2:16 called Sales Acceleration with an X, and

2:18 it's a a good group of us around the

2:21 country. There's about 200 of us around

2:23 the country, uh, with at least 25 years

2:25 of sales management experience. And then

2:27 we pull our our tools, our best

2:30 practices, our knowledge, and then

2:32 corporates out there looking for the

2:33 latest and greatest for us as well. you

2:36 know, CRM systems and AI solutions and

2:39 things like that, stuff we would never

2:40 have the time to do on our own. So,

2:42 we've got a corporate group looking for

2:44 it. And again, where it's helped me a

2:46 lot is is in in helping clients. You

2:48 know, you get referred sometimes to

2:50 clients that are well outside of your

2:53 comfort zone of industries that you

2:55 served in corporate America. Well,

2:57 again, as I said, I've got 200 people to

2:59 call on to say, "Hey, do you want to

3:00 co-advice?" I've co-advised with several

3:03 adviserss and uh and I've been called in

3:05 to co-advise or simply hey you know can

3:08 I take a three-hour crash course from

3:10 you and what you did and you know what

3:12 are the important elements of this

3:14 industry what do we got to work on first

3:16 what's what's going to make this happen

3:18 so we bring a lot of good things to our

3:20 clients and and what I like about sales

3:22 acceleration is it's it's not a

3:24 franchise it's a licensing agreement I

3:26 can run six businesses on the side and I

3:29 shouldn't even say this in public but I

3:30 chuck We pay them on the honor system.

3:32 You know, we bill our clients because

3:34 our clients are are working with us and

3:36 then, you know, we tell them each month

3:37 how much we sold and the items from them

3:40 that we used. But the best way I've I've

3:42 explained this that people say um

3:45 resonates is, you know, when you've got

3:47 sales problems, sales issues, and we'll

3:49 talk about those my my clients um

3:52 >> and I come in to help you, you know, I'm

3:54 coming in as your mechanic. Okay? I'm

3:56 the person I'm gonna get dirty. I'm

3:58 gonna lift the hood. I'm going to look

4:00 at everything, inspect everything in

4:02 your organization, and then, you know,

4:04 I'm going to tune your engine to to race

4:06 performance. That's really what I do for

4:08 my clients. And in doing so, you know,

4:11 the analogy is I happen to use sales

4:13 acceleration, spark plugs, oil, and

4:15 belts, let's say. Okay? They've got some

4:17 really good products, some really good

4:19 tools that are out there for me to use

4:21 to help me tune your engine and and get

4:24 you running. So, so, uh, that's that's

4:26 my relationship with Sales Acceleration.

4:28 But, so what I do for clients today,

4:31 today I'm I'm I'm focused away from the

4:34 big boy world, so to speak, and and my

4:36 clients are SMBs, if you will, or small

4:38 and midsize businesses. So, the majority

4:41 of my clients fall in the $5 million to

4:44 $75 million range. And because that's an

4:48 area where we see them get stuck all the

4:50 time. Okay? great product, great

4:52 service, whatever it is they produce,

4:54 they're, you know, hey, they're driving

4:56 it to that number. I mean, you you get a

4:58 company to$10 million, you did a damn

5:00 good job in my book, okay? And I've got

5:02 some at, you know, 15 to$40 million and

5:05 and then all of a sudden the brakes go

5:07 on and everybody's looking at one

5:09 another going, "What happened?" I mean,

5:10 we were going like this. Why did this

5:13 happen? And there are some very common

5:15 problems that, you know, I see when I

5:17 come in to help. So I am generally

5:19 introduced to a business owner that's

5:21 you know either look know they're

5:23 looking to get to a next level for a

5:25 reason. They want to sell the business.

5:27 They want to acquire other businesses.

5:28 They want to do that or they're just

5:31 stuck and they've got that issue of I

5:34 don't know what happened. I don't know

5:35 why I'm here um in this position. So

5:39 what I I generally do is come in as a

5:41 fractional sales leader or a fractional

5:44 chief revenue officer to help them out

5:48 of this situation and get them growing

5:49 again. Okay, so that's that's really my

5:51 primary role. And um you know, I've been

5:54 doing this 5 years now. I've gotten some

5:57 uh I have a pretty good success record.

5:59 I'm one of the top performers, the top

6:01 10% at sales acceleration. Most of my

6:04 clients have been up 20 to 35% in

6:07 working with me uh about a year and

6:09 that's about what I work with the client

6:11 is approximately a year depending on the

6:13 need because I'm not there to embed

6:15 myself. My job is to come in evaluate

6:18 the processes, the systems, the people

6:21 and get you back on track. You know, we

6:23 see a lot of common problems uh in

6:26 companies of that size and the reason

6:27 that they stall um you know, sometimes

6:30 the owner is just far too involved in

6:32 sales, right? They're still the number

6:34 one salesperson and

6:36 >> that's just not scalable. You just you

6:39 can't be the number one salesperson and

6:41 run a company and grow it. Okay? So,

6:43 that's that's part of the reason that

6:45 companies get stuck. But there's, you

6:47 know, again, the excitement of driving

6:50 sales and growing, you know, gets the

6:53 best of you and you don't, you know,

6:55 document anything. For example, I walk

6:57 into a lot of companies with no systems,

6:59 no processes, no playbook, you know,

7:02 it's just kind of like, you know, some

7:05 salespeople got hired, they're supposed

7:06 to know what they're doing. Go get them,

7:08 Tiger. You know, and uh bring it home

7:11 for us.

7:12 >> And that's just, you know, again, that's

7:14 not scalable. that's not repeatable and

7:17 how do you hold anybody accountable to

7:18 go get them tiger? You know that's

7:20 that's just doesn't work in today's

7:22 world. So um you know my primary

7:25 functions when I come in to help a

7:27 client is to again look at systems

7:30 processes and then of course the people

7:33 okay and when we you know when we get

7:35 past the owner and any issues there and

7:38 we're building the sales process and

7:40 systems you know the the critical

7:42 element is a CRM right yeah and many of

7:45 our clients many of my clients still

7:47 don't have one okay if you can believe

7:48 it or not 50% of my clients I go in

7:51 don't have a CRM they're still using

7:53 spreadsheets or they're using a listing

7:56 off of uh you know um one of the

7:59 accounting softwares or something like

8:01 that. And you know I'm working with a

8:03 client right now that's probably about

8:06 25 million in revenue.

8:09 Whoever the Excel person is did a very

8:11 good job of building this beautiful

8:12 tracker sheet but it's a nightmare. It's

8:14 an absolute nightmare and there's just

8:16 no way that can help you do your job

8:19 right. So uh once I start working with

8:21 the sales teams you know I sometimes I

8:24 have to do some sales training. I do

8:26 have a recruiting firm behind me. So I

8:28 you know help hire uh hopefully for the

8:30 expansion that we expect and and we will

8:32 implement but sometimes we don't have

8:34 the right people and we have to replace

8:36 too. So that's that's part of my job and

8:38 you know maybe changing compensation

8:40 plans to better motivate people things

8:42 like that. But there's two primary

8:45 things that, you know, I help the

8:47 salesforce with. And I always kind of

8:48 tell them this because they get nervous

8:50 when I show up, right? What's this guy

8:52 doing here? And what's he going to do to

8:53 us? But, you know, if they're good at

8:55 what they do and and they've they've got

8:58 the right attitude, that's more

8:59 important to me than anything else. They

9:00 want to sell, they enjoy selling, you

9:03 know, they're semi good at it, or

9:04 they've had some s, you know, sufficient

9:06 success, then there's only two things I

9:08 can do for them, I tell them. Number

9:10 one, get roadblocks out of their way.

9:12 Okay. What's been slowing them down?

9:15 Nine times out of 10 that that's

9:17 internal processes, systems, the way

9:21 they have to interact with the rest of

9:22 the organization to sell whatever it is

9:25 they're selling type of thing. So we do

9:27 a lot of work there. And number two is

9:30 get them the tools they need to do their

9:32 job, okay, more efficiently and faster.

9:35 >> And again, you know, the primary tool

9:38 that has to be there is a CRM of some

9:40 kind, right? so that we can actually

9:42 build a sales process, make sure

9:44 everybody understands how we guide a

9:46 customer through that process and we may

9:49 have multiples because we have multiple

9:51 ideal client profiles, we serve

9:53 different markets, whatever that happens

9:55 to be. That's all well and good and we

9:57 get all that there. Um, and then you

10:00 know then we set our KPIs um so that I

10:03 can hold the team accountable, right?

10:05 How many calls should they be making?

10:07 How many proposals do we expect from

10:08 them? what are the sales that we expect

10:10 from them so we can see what's working,

10:12 what's not working and how to get more

10:14 efficient. But of course, when we get

10:16 all that, you know, up and running and

10:18 all that's well and good, I mean,

10:20 salespeople are not inexpensive, okay?

10:22 They're they're a um, you know, uh,

10:25 probably the biggest cost of selling is

10:27 the sales team's compensation, right?

10:30 And, you know, to that end, you got to

10:32 make them as efficient as possible to

10:34 win the game. All right? And you know

10:37 everybody uses the term prospecting and

10:39 part of the reason we came together and

10:41 had some discussions here. What are we

10:43 doing for prospecting? How are we

10:44 prospecting? How are we doing that in

10:46 today's marketplace? How can we do it

10:49 more efficiently, you know, than maybe

10:50 we have in the past? So, you know, we're

10:53 always looking for tools, systems, and

10:56 processes to do a better job at

10:58 prospecting because I want my sales

11:02 teams maximum amount of time in front of

11:05 potential clients because that's where

11:07 we sell. That's how we that we turn it

11:10 on. Um, so prospecting is a big piece of

11:13 that. Um, and it can get convoluted,

11:16 too. Uh, and what I mean by that is, you

11:19 know, I walk into some companies that

11:21 I'll just make up an example. You know,

11:22 let's say they sell to the automotive

11:24 market, right? And you go to their

11:25 website and whatever they sell, they

11:27 sell to the automotive market. It makes

11:29 perfect sense, right? You go in there

11:30 and you start talking to them and it's

11:31 like, well, they don't just sell to the

11:33 automotive market, they sell to the

11:35 marine and boat market and they sell to

11:38 the construction equipment market. And

11:40 and I'm like, but it doesn't say that on

11:42 your website. How you doing that? Yeah.

11:45 Well, we met somebody and we sold them

11:47 something and you know, this is where it

11:49 gets very complicated and confusing and

11:52 then the salespeople are confused too.

11:55 So, what I'm saying out of all that is a

11:58 lot of my job at the beginning sometimes

12:00 is to have the sales team put the

12:02 shotguns in the rack. I say to them,

12:04 right, stop shooting at anything that

12:06 moves in the grass. You got you got to

12:08 stop that because it's just it's not

12:10 efficient for us. If we know that, you

12:13 know, we serve a market like automotive

12:16 very well, let's define that ideal

12:19 client profile. Let's define our value

12:21 proposition against them. Then let's go

12:23 get more of them, okay? Because we know

12:26 we do that well. They like us. We make

12:28 money on it. That's our gold right now.

12:31 Now, as we grow, we want to get into

12:34 other markets, you know, um you know,

12:36 again, marine or or whatever it happens

12:39 to be, construction equipment. Well,

12:41 let's do a little research on that.

12:42 Let's bring in some marketing partners.

12:44 Let's make sure we have a value

12:46 proposition for them, that their market

12:48 is good enough, etc., etc. And uh, you

12:51 know, then we can decide how to approach

12:53 them and let's put it on our website

12:54 that we actually help people like that.

12:56 So, there are things like that that we

12:58 have to do. But regardless of what

13:00 industry we're going after, what we're

13:01 h, you know, what we're trying to do,

13:03 when I narrow him down and get them

13:05 focused, it it all comes back to

13:07 prospecting. And I I help all my clients

13:11 build a playbook. Um and and a lot of

13:14 that playbook is, you know, this is who

13:17 we are. This is our value proposition.

13:19 This is what we bring to the table. This

13:22 is why our clients like us. This is the

13:24 type of clients that we serve. And

13:25 again, there may be multiples all along

13:27 the way there. And this is what we want

13:30 more of with this value proposition. So

13:33 then that can all be applied against a

13:36 prospecting you know process and

13:38 strategy. Okay. If we know these are the

13:41 people that we want you know what's the

13:44 best way to attract them. Okay you know

13:46 for many it's LinkedIn. Okay, in a B2B

13:49 world, which is what I deal in mostly,

13:51 you have to have a strategy on LinkedIn,

13:54 whatever that is on on how you're going

13:56 to go out there, how you're going to

13:57 find them, how you're going to engage

13:58 them, and ultimately, you know, soft

14:02 shoe them into understanding what you

14:04 do. So, you know, the hard cell doesn't

14:07 work on LinkedIn. You know, the minute

14:09 somebody says, "Hey, can we link in?"

14:11 And as soon as I say yes, their ad comes

14:13 up like, "Oh, glad you linked in. Here's

14:15 what I do." blah blah blah blah blah

14:17 blah blah,

14:18 >> everybody's just shoe shooing that. So,

14:20 you you have to have a more intelligent

14:22 uh approach and strategy to to what

14:25 you're doing on LinkedIn. And then of

14:27 course, you know, when you're trying to,

14:30 you know, build lists and prospect and

14:33 find your customer base, you know, the

14:35 AI tools that are out there today are

14:37 starting to make a huge difference where

14:39 you can now,

14:40 >> you know, well, if we want to call it,

14:42 scrape the internet a whole lot faster

14:44 with an AI tool, finding organizations

14:48 that fit your profile, the titles of the

14:51 people that fit your profile, so that

14:53 you can build a list that you actually

14:55 want to prospect. effect too and then

14:57 again whether you're using LinkedIn

14:59 whether you're doing a email campaign a

15:02 combin hopefully you're doing the

15:03 combination of the two maybe your

15:05 business is such that you're including

15:07 phone as well you know you're doing some

15:09 phone prospecting

15:10 um again that's another one today that

15:13 people have to be careful with because

15:14 you know I don't answer my phone if I

15:16 don't know the number I just don't do it

15:18 right it's another spam call type of

15:20 thing but if you send out a LinkedIn

15:23 note or you send in an email

15:25 respectfully Y stating, you know, you've

15:27 sent them some information, blah, blah,

15:29 blah. If you don't mind, I'm going to

15:30 try to give you a call. My name is this.

15:32 This is how it'll appear on my phone.

15:35 You can get a much higher pickup rate

15:37 of, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw your note.

15:38 Okay, tell tell me your story type of

15:40 thing. So, so these are the things that

15:42 that we work on. Um, you know, again,

15:44 for me, it's getting the teams focused.

15:47 It's getting the organization focused,

15:49 building that sales process and that

15:51 playbook that we're going to work from.

15:53 And then again, tools like prospecting

15:56 tools, putting those in the hands of

15:58 salespeople so that they can be more

15:59 efficient. So, you know, it's a long,

16:02 sorry for the length of that. [laughter]

16:04 >> It's a very, it's a very intricate and

16:06 detailed approach that you guys are

16:07 taking. Like you said, you're a mechanic

16:09 for a year. You're getting in there.

16:11 You're getting under the hood. You're

16:12 actually like messing around. You're

16:13 not, you know, giving highlevel abstract

16:16 advice. That's, you know, good luck with

16:18 that. It's like, no, I'm in there. My

16:19 hands are on. We're getting things done.

16:21 Um you mentioned that you're trying to

16:24 you know remove the blockers and give

16:25 them efficiency and then I think I

16:27 caught that you said you start with the

16:29 playbook. Is that step one or what's

16:31 step one to make sure

16:32 >> the playbook comes very quickly once we

16:34 once we determine at least

16:36 >> one or two primary ideal client profiles

16:40 and value propositions. We build the

16:42 complete playbook against that. We got

16:44 to study our competitors. You know

16:46 people don't a lot of people don't even

16:47 do that. Hey, I'm who I am. What do I

16:49 care about the competition? Well, hey,

16:51 you need to be able to walk in and

16:52 intelligently answer an objection from a

16:55 potential client about a competitor. You

16:57 know, hey, I hear what you do, but I use

16:59 ABC company. Why should I use you? You

17:01 need intelligent answer to that. And the

17:04 worst thing that you could do is bash

17:05 the competition and say, you know, we're

17:07 better. And if you're going to say we're

17:08 better, you better have some data and

17:10 proof against it because, you know, in

17:12 God I trust, everybody else better bring

17:15 me some data. So,

17:16 >> well, better better is subjective no

17:19 matter what. Even if you bring in data,

17:20 it's still going to be better on what

17:22 angle or what not. And really,

17:24 >> you know, I think oftentimes when you

17:25 get those objections when they bring up

17:27 their competitor, your competitors, it's

17:29 a a genuine they are trying to find out.

17:31 Like they're trying to make a decision

17:33 and they really do want to know, tell me

17:36 how you guys are different. Don't just

17:37 tell me you're better. Tell me how

17:38 you're different so I can look at my own

17:40 business and understand and you can help

17:42 me understand

17:44 >> that this is, you know, this is a better

17:45 fit or that's a better fit. And so, you

17:48 know, without being able to directly

17:49 speak to the competitor, you're 100%

17:51 right. How are you supposed to tell them

17:53 how you're different if you're not aware

17:55 of that?

17:56 >> Right. Exactly. You know, what one of

17:58 the things that, you know, I'm asked to

17:59 compare quite often is CRM systems. And

18:02 again, I've got probably it's probably a

18:05 50/50 on my customers or, you know, 50%

18:08 using a HubSpot if you will and 50%

18:11 using like a pipe drive. Okay? where

18:13 Pipe Drive was developed as a CRM for a

18:15 very specific CRM purpose. HubSpot was

18:18 developed as a marketing automation tool

18:20 that then grew into an excellent CRM

18:23 system as well. So, you know that those

18:25 are the types of things where you sit

18:26 down with a client and say, you know,

18:28 what are the pros and cons? You got to

18:30 look at the cost. Where is most of your

18:32 time going to be? Is is the marketing

18:34 automation more important? Is the CRM

18:36 more important? So those are some of

18:39 the, you know, things that I work on

18:40 with a client to decide based on who

18:42 we're targeting, what we're doing, how

18:44 we're doing it, what's the best tool for

18:47 the need today.

18:48 >> Yeah.

18:49 >> Will that be something where you'll

18:51 you'll finish the playbook and then

18:52 you'll use that as part of your

18:53 assessment strategy for what tools

18:55 you're going to bring in? How does that

18:57 how does that interact? What are the I'm

18:59 sure it's very nuanced and every you

19:01 know every single client's different but

19:03 what are the things you're taking into

19:04 consideration when you're looking at the

19:06 playbook versus the CRM or the whatever

19:09 other you know prospecting tool that

19:10 you're using?

19:11 >> Well again you know the the playbook

19:13 again is always focused on what what is

19:15 our value proposition and we dig deep

19:17 you know to you said it before to say

19:19 you're better means nothing. Okay. And

19:22 in certain industries to say you have

19:23 high quality to say you have great

19:25 customer service everybody's saying that

19:27 whether it's true or not. Okay. So you

19:30 need a very specific value proposition.

19:34 Okay. And you need to have the backup

19:37 documentation andor you know support of

19:40 your customers saying that that's what

19:42 you do. Okay. Nothing drives me crazy

19:45 being an old marketing person. When

19:47 somebody says you know we are the best

19:49 at this. The first thing I say to myself

19:51 is according to who? Who? You just

19:55 making a blanket statement. Now you want

19:56 to tell me that these customers say that

20:00 I'm, you know, great at this, this, and

20:02 this. Okay, now I got something to

20:04 verify. Now I've got somebody making a

20:06 statement. That's that's a lot more

20:08 impressive to me than your opinion.

20:10 Okay, type of thing. So So we dig deep

20:13 into value proposition. We dig deep then

20:15 into who are ideal client profiles

20:18 within those. Then we have the target

20:20 marketing that we're going to do. And

20:22 then again, we look at our competition.

20:24 We look at our our content and how we

20:27 speak to our clients to make sure that

20:29 we're we're keeping with our ideal

20:31 client profile, etc., etc. We we help a

20:34 client build a whole I mean, a whole

20:36 database of content that they can use,

20:39 you know, against those. And of course,

20:40 again, we're using AI to go out and and

20:42 evaluate the competition. What are they

20:45 saying, not just on their websites, but

20:46 everywhere else on the web?

20:48 who's talking about them, who's saying

20:50 things about them, and then we will we

20:52 will help them build objection um

20:55 counters, if you will, you know, so when

20:57 a client objects to something that we

21:00 say and about a thing, you know, we can

21:03 feed back with intelligent information,

21:05 not just, you know, well, you know,

21:07 again, we think we're better type of

21:08 thing, right? So, so that playbook all

21:11 gets built usually in the first 30 to 45

21:14 days, but it's set to be a living

21:17 document that we're going to expand on.

21:18 Obviously, if we go into other markets,

21:20 we're going to add to it there. If we

21:22 bring in other tools, we're going to add

21:24 to it there. Again, that's it helps us

21:27 pick the right tool. And then we would

21:29 document the tool in the playbook as

21:30 well. So if we pick make it up HubSpot

21:33 as our tool, we talk about what the

21:35 purpose of the tool is, how it's to be

21:38 used by sales, what the expectation is,

21:42 etc., etc., so that there's always

21:43 guidance there to the salesperson. The

21:46 goal with a good sales playbook is well

21:49 it's multiffold but number one to give

21:53 um you know a document to a salesperson

21:56 so that 90% of what they need to know

22:00 based on what is expected of them is in

22:02 that playbook as well as you know the

22:05 value that they bring to the client so

22:07 that they understand it very well. The

22:10 second big piece of a great greatly put

22:13 together playbook is you know if you're

22:16 looking for investors or you're looking

22:17 to sell your company again as I said

22:20 early on I was in the private equity

22:22 world you know they are very buttoned up

22:24 investors with an investment thesis and

22:26 they know exactly what they want to do

22:29 and they will you know if they're

22:32 looking at a company they need to know

22:35 that there is a sales playbook a sales

22:38 process and life beyond the previous

22:40 owner. Because again, you know, these

22:42 people go to buy companies. Again, if

22:44 the owner is the top salesperson, the

22:46 thing we talked about earlier on as

22:48 being a problem,

22:50 >> these companies need to know that, okay,

22:52 if I buy this company, give a big check

22:55 to this owner and shake their hand and

22:56 say goodbye, is there anything left? Is

23:00 there is there really anything left? Or

23:02 was it all that person's relationships

23:04 and what they built their whole life? So

23:07 that's what a good playbook does is

23:10 prove to an investor

23:12 we're well beyond just the owner here.

23:14 We have a sales team. We have a sales

23:16 process. We have sales targets. You

23:19 know, we we've set our goals and

23:20 objectives and it will continue with or

23:24 without the owner. Okay. Type of thing.

23:26 So that's part of what I have to do um

23:28 in putting all that together for a

23:30 client.

23:31 >> Yeah. So when you you put together a

23:33 playbook, you start matching the tools

23:34 to it. you're explaining how to to you

23:36 know use those tools within the playbook

23:38 to the sellers. Um do you have any uh

23:42 guidance or insights for people who are

23:44 trying to do that tool assessment on

23:46 kind of what they should be taking into

23:47 consideration? What are some p uh you

23:50 know some uh pitfalls they might run

23:51 into? What are things to watch out for?

23:54 Um you know how are how are you kind of

23:55 guiding people on what tools to select?

23:58 >> Right. Right. Well, you know, uh, as far

24:00 as the tools go and and I have some

24:03 people that that help me as well, and I

24:04 I work with other, you know, providers,

24:07 you know, that I may bring into the game

24:09 based on what I'm seeing there. But I'm

24:11 always looking for, you know, good

24:13 organizations that can do a technical

24:16 assessment with me. Okay. Again, my my

24:19 job is is strategy and implementation,

24:22 um, not technical implementation. So I'm

24:26 I'm you know looking to others to do to

24:28 help me do assessments to uh you know in

24:31 fact I worked with a client and you know

24:34 they had several tools kind of

24:36 convoluted based on their industry. You

24:39 know there are certain industries where

24:41 you know 20 years ago somebody sold some

24:44 software package that manages the whole

24:46 process. It helps them do the proposal

24:48 then it keeps you know track of all

24:50 their projects and accounting and

24:51 everything else. and they've been using

24:53 this all-in-one tool for 20 years. Yeah.

24:56 >> But it doesn't do some of the things we

24:57 need it to do, right? So, you know, to

25:00 there I need a partner to help me

25:02 understand, you know, does this have an

25:04 open, you know, API? Can we communicate

25:07 with this tool? Do we have to use a

25:09 separate tool on top of it type of

25:11 thing. So, um, 90% of the time I'm

25:15 bringing a partner in

25:17 >> to assess the tools that they're using

25:19 today from a technical aspect to make

25:22 sure that, you know, we're picking the

25:24 right ones. And again, that's usually a

25:26 combination of a couple of things. for

25:28 me a CRM system. We've talked about a

25:32 lead generation and prospecting tool,

25:36 usually some kind of AI based tool, um,

25:39 you know, that that we're utilizing to

25:42 find our target clients type of thing.

25:45 >> And then the one that's come up more

25:47 recently that we're using for certain

25:49 types of clients is a is a training

25:52 tool. Um,

25:53 >> so you know today with AI there are now

25:57 some great tools out there that will

25:59 monitor everything the salespeople are

26:01 doing. I mean it'll listen to their

26:03 phone calls, it'll monitor all their

26:04 emails, their LinkedIn communications,

26:07 everything. You know, we can put an

26:08 agent on anything today, right? To to

26:11 monitor all the activity there. And

26:13 these tools have gotten pretty

26:15 sophisticated. If we have a quality

26:18 playbook that we believe is valid and

26:21 works and we can feed that playbook into

26:24 this training tool that will monitor

26:27 each salesperson's activity each week. I

26:30 know it sounds big brotherish and kind

26:32 of scary but I've seen it work. uh I

26:34 haven't implemented it in huge scale but

26:37 again it can go out it can monitor let's

26:40 say the phone calls and emails of a

26:42 salesperson and once a week

26:45 Betty the bot actually calls them and

26:47 says hey Austin been following you all

26:51 week you've had some great things you

26:52 made all these sales everything else

26:54 this has all been good these are the

26:56 positive things that you've been doing

26:58 that adhere to the playbook and we

27:00 believe the reason for your success but

27:02 here's some things that maybe you're not

27:04 doing so well. We noticed in these calls

27:07 you failed to bring up these points. You

27:09 failed to validate their concerns here.

27:13 Dear, let's do some role playing

27:15 together. And this bot will actually do

27:17 role playing with a salesperson.

27:19 >> Wow.

27:20 >> Against the playbook. Yeah. It's it's

27:23 it was pretty scary. First time I saw

27:25 it, I'm like, "Oh, come on." But it's

27:28 working. And when you have a big

27:29 organization

27:31 that's, you know, doing, you know, super

27:34 high volume of emails, phone calls, and

27:37 whatever to accomplish what they do, um,

27:40 that's hard for any human to keep their

27:42 hands around. So, you know, we have

27:44 these tools now that can actually

27:45 monitor this stuff. Again, it's always

27:48 against some guidance that we're giving

27:50 it, right? But uh they can be very

27:52 helpful to uh you know help train your

27:55 salesforce without just ongoing random

27:58 training but very specific training to

28:01 their both their strengths and their

28:03 weaknesses as we perceive them in how

28:06 they do their job. So

28:07 >> yeah three terminologies that are out

28:10 there that you were working with today.

28:12 >> I think it's really important the your

28:14 point about it having something to

28:15 ground against like you can't just set

28:17 it loose. you have to have a well-

28:18 constructed expert put together playbook

28:21 that it actually can ground against

28:24 versus you know just kind of going out

28:26 willy-nilly and hoping. Um are you doing

28:28 anything that uh is also kind of

28:31 monitoring and cross referencing and

28:32 maybe starting to say like hey based on

28:34 this feedback we're gather or ga b b b b

28:36 b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b based on

28:36 this data we're gathering, we should

28:37 actually start adjusting the playbook or

28:39 is that something that you have to kind

28:40 of do from?

28:41 >> Oh, no. AB. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

28:42 Yeah. So again, especially if you have

28:45 good software that can monitor your

28:47 sales against content, you know, even in

28:49 a system like HubSpot or something like

28:51 that, right? you're sending out content

28:53 and and you're seeing certain, you know,

28:56 certain types of clients, you know, the

28:58 the appeal to some and not to others.

29:00 It's always moni trying to monitor the

29:02 effectiveness of the content that's

29:04 going out there. And again, back to this

29:06 training software, you can do the same

29:07 thing on the side of the salesperson.

29:09 What salespeople are selling the most?

29:11 Okay, what types of clients did they

29:14 talk to? What type of messaging were

29:16 they sending out to those? So, yes,

29:17 we're always adjusting. So when we see

29:20 like for example, you know, even in a

29:22 HubSpot or something like that, if we're

29:24 doing, you know, email outbound

29:26 campaign, sometimes marketing is doing

29:28 that on their own. They're just doing

29:30 this massive blast. But I like to let

29:33 sales people do their own. I I prefer

29:35 that they get, you know, the more um

29:39 customer specific you can get, I think

29:41 the greater chance you have of earning

29:43 somebody, you know, because no one wants

29:44 to read, you know, a cloned, you know,

29:47 direct mail piece, right? you it's like

29:50 you know hey Austin I'm contacting you

29:52 because I know that you do this this and

29:54 this and we believe we can help by doing

29:57 this this and this and we've also notice

29:59 that that you know when you can start

30:02 you know putting together some data

30:04 we're like hey this person did their

30:05 homework they're just not this is not a

30:08 you know a full blast out to the world

30:10 this is this is some homework's been

30:12 done they you know they obviously

30:15 believe that they have a solution for me

30:17 they may be worth talking to right So

30:19 that's we want to do as much of that as

30:20 possible. So we do that sometimes by on

30:23 the in the email side of things and and

30:25 LinkedIn too building sequences right

30:28 sequences of messages that can go out

30:31 and then we monitor the effectiveness of

30:34 those you know by salesperson too. So,

30:38 not only did the content go out to give,

30:40 you know, the the um interest level to a

30:43 client such that we could have a

30:45 conversation, but once the conversation

30:47 started, which salespeople were doing it

30:50 better than others, okay? And that's

30:52 when we share that data. Obviously, the

30:54 winners will always share that data. The

30:56 losers, we want to make sure that, you

30:58 know, we eliminate that content that's

31:01 not working for us. we eliminate the

31:03 approach that was taken that led to us

31:06 not winning, you know, the opportunity

31:09 type of thing. So, you know, there's

31:10 still so much more to explore, but the

31:12 AI tools are obviously making it easier

31:15 and easier for us to to process that

31:18 amount of data.

31:19 >> Yeah. To get more impact out of each

31:21 seller, right?

31:22 >> Exactly.

31:23 >> All right. Well, John, we're up on time,

31:25 but before I let you go, I do want to

31:27 ask one final question, which is if

31:28 somebody's listening in,

31:30 >> uh, what's the one big takeaway you want

31:32 to make sure that they they get from,

31:34 uh, everything we've discussed today?

31:36 >> Yeah. That, you know, you don't have to

31:38 do this on your own. You don't, you

31:39 know, if you're not an expert at sales

31:43 and prospecting and and you know, you

31:46 specifically if you're a business owner

31:48 and you're struggling because you

31:50 realize you're the number one

31:52 salesperson and you're trying to run a

31:53 company, you know, there are people like

31:55 myself would love to help you, love to

31:57 have a conversation. I offer a free

31:59 assessment where we can sit down and

32:02 just discuss where you are today and

32:03 where we think we can get you. There's

32:05 no obligation there. I'm happy to do

32:06 that with any business owner, but u you

32:09 know, in today's world, we have

32:11 fractional experts like myself. So, you

32:13 don't have to hire a half a million

32:14 dollar person and hope that they're the

32:17 right person. Okay? Um you can try a

32:20 couple of us fractionals and see if we

32:22 can do it for you or if this is even

32:24 right for you. So, I I think that's

32:26 where the world's changed a little bit.

32:28 And uh there's lots of people and tools

32:30 out there to help you do it better.

32:32 Don't try to be the expert. Reach out,

32:34 take a shot. we can make it very

32:36 cost-effective for you to uh improve

32:38 your business.

32:40 >> That's great, John. I really appreciate

32:41 you coming on, sharing some wisdom with

32:43 us.

32:43 >> Thank you. Appreciate it very much.

32:45 Appreciate you having me.