Joe Ippolito on Cold Calling, Pattern Interrupts, and Prospecting Mindset

Transcript

0:02 Now, Joe, as we were talking about before, uh, you know, you were talking about, you know, thinking about what the p prospect is thinking about while

0:09 they're getting the cold call and like putting yourself in their shoes. Yeah.

0:13 Specifically, you're talking about the, you know, managing the amydala. So, for us science geeky people out there who are a little like, you know, what does

0:21 that mean? You tell us a little bit more about that.

0:24 Yeah. Well, um, you know, Austin, like prospecting is the most dreaded function of any salesperson out there. Like, no, no one

0:32 likes to do it. No one really wants to do it. And there's a reason for it. It's usually

0:39 it's it's not as effective as it could be.

0:42 And a lot of people get kind of a misperception on, well, prospecting doesn't work and people don't want to talk to cold callers and they don't pick up the phone.

0:52 Yeah. And and there there's a certain degree of of truth to that. But what they really have to start looking at is

0:59 it's not whether prospecting works or not.

1:04 Because we know bad prospecting surely doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah.

1:09 So that's really how they have to look at. Now, if you can prospect effectively and not sell, create some value, have a

1:17 structure, and understand where the prospect's coming from and have a game plan, prospecting is still a very very

1:25 effective approach. And and a lot of the companies I've trained over the years and still today

1:32 um do outbound prospecting to build a pipeline.

1:36 Yeah. So when you're when you're talking about effective versus ineffective, like what are some of the key, you know, things that are the structure of effective?

1:45 Yeah, great great. That's a that's a great question. So, you know, a couple things we think about. Number one, um,

1:52 you've got to have some type of plan of, you know, how are you going to prospect? And, you know, we're not going to really talk about that because I

1:59 think it's, you know, the only thing I'd really have to say to that is a lot of people are singlethreaded when they prospect. Yeah.

2:06 And they send a bunch of emails out and expect people to answer emails.

2:11 I've done that accidentally or not accidentally. I've done that and then found out Everybody has Everybody has um or they just make calls and and

2:20 that's about it. Or uh they just do LinkedIn request or just you know what

2:26 what we find is the plan is the most effective. Like if you looked at each one of those, and I'm just big picture,

2:35 each one of those is probably less than 10% effectiveness. Way, way less than print. Not probably, way less than 10%.

2:44 Mhm.

2:44 Leaving voicemails is the least effective of getting a call back.

2:50 Yeah. But when you combine them in some type of system, like if I made a call and then chances

2:59 are you're not going to pick up, but then I leave a voicemail. Mhm.

3:04 But the voicemail is not going to be to sell them on the call and say something like, "Hey, Austin, it's Joe Balito calling from Sandler Training. I'd really like to talk to you about

3:13 enrolling in some of our sales training programs. Please give me a call back." Yeah. you know, they're not going to call you back. But if I mentioned

3:21 something and I just said, "Hey, Austin, uh, hey, just shot you an email um about 10:00. Uh, subject line this. Hey, take

3:30 a look. Uh, if there's any interest, um, you know, reach back out to me."

3:36 Right? So, I'm now tying a voice message into curiosity to hook maybe the prospect to look at their email and get

3:44 back and see a message. So that that's what I mean. There's got to be a couple of different ways you approach the prospect. So that's number one. So just some type of game plan on what you're doing.

3:55 And then um I'm going to talk about really then it comes down to tactics and techniques like yeah, how do you open the call? Because you

4:03 know when you think about the whole thing I I actually think like prospecting is probably the toughest. I mean, brain surgery is even easier than

4:11 prospect when you think about because at least in brain surgery, the guy is like your your your prospect is under anesthesia and can't move, can't hurt you, can't do anything bad, right?

4:23 And hopefully they said, "Please operate on me before you and they want to be operated on, right?" But, you know, you think about, you know, most people are going to call to someone who's probably super busy.

4:35 They're working. They've got things going on in the middle of the day and now all of a sudden they pick up the phone and someone is going going to try

4:44 to sell them something on the phone, interrupt their day, take them off some tasks and expect to have a successful outcome.

4:53 Yeah.

4:54 It it So when you get the the the data where it's one out of a hundred Yeah. Maybe

5:01 you get lucky once in a while. It's kind of like the blind squirrel finding a nut, but but you need a a plan to open up the call effectively.

5:12 And what we talk about, like when you think about when that prospect picks up the phone, they're not like, "Hey, Austin. Yeah, hey, actually, I wasn't

5:20 doing anything today. Yeah, I'd love to hear what you're selling and and maybe even buy something from you." Right? A psychological wall goes up right away.

5:29 And it's it's instant unconscious wall. you know, from the amygdala gets on fire and it's a fight or flight.

5:38 And fight is, hey, you know what? We we're all set. We don't need this. We're already under contract. And flight was would be, hey, they just hang up on you.

5:49 Say, never call again. Yeah.

5:52 So, you know, a lot of people like I it's it's funny like, you know, a lot of people I talk to come, yeah, we get scripts and stuff like that. I'm like,

5:59 unless you get the prospect receptive to what you're going to say in the beginning, there's not one word you can say where that prospect is going to say,

6:07 "Oh my god, are you kidding me? That's like the best thing I have ever heard.

6:11 No, I would love to buy this today." Yeah.

6:14 It it it just doesn't happen. So, you need that little process to get the guard down, create value right away,

6:24 right? understand kind of if they have any challenges or problems and then not sell but just see if there's a problem

6:32 and try to book a meeting. So that would be tactics, techniques and then number three is just the mindset of going in there to a to prospecting call.

6:42 Yeah.

6:43 Um just to talk to a minute on that because I think that's important too. Super.

6:48 Most sales people go in with the mindset that they have to sell something. Mhm.

6:52 I mean, that's that that's what everyone gets paid for, right? To to sell something. So, the mindset is, "Yeah, I know. I' I've got to see, you know, I'

7:01 got to get their interest and try to sell something for them." Well, that's not the right mindset because a prospecting call is not a place to sell

7:08 a prospect. It's the worst environment possible that you could try to sell. So

7:16 the mindset around the Sandler approach is, hey, does this person have a problem that I could potentially solve?

7:26 Yeah.

7:27 And that's all I'm doing. I'm like like a doctor trying to diagnose. Hey, look at we're just going to have a conversation, Austin, and if you're having a problem, issue, challenge, or

7:35 goal, or objective that maybe we could help you with, maybe we could set a meeting and and talk about it.

7:41 Yeah. if not for any reason, hey, you know where we are if something changes down the road and and we can talk back then.

7:49 So it there's no pressure and my goal is to uncover a problem, challenge, issue,

7:57 a level of curiosity, and then book a meeting. Yeah.

8:02 It's not to sell. So I don't know if you want to talk about that at all or comment. Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more about, you know, as I'm picking

8:10 up the phone because I wanted I wanted two things you said there specifically talking about the amydala and like the wall going up and that's like a basic instinct, right? It's fight or flight.

8:19 Everyone's pro pre-programmed to do that. It's not been deprogrammed out of humans. That's there. Correct.

8:23 So, how do you diffuse that? And then also the mindset as you're talking about like, hey, you're not there to close the deal on the call. Correct.

8:30 You're there to do that. So, I mean, I'd love to hear because like as I'm going to pick up the phone, Yeah. Yeah.

8:35 What am I thinking about as I'm going to pick up the phone specifically? What am I head space should I be in? Um, you know, how am I understanding their

8:43 positioning and how am I trying to diffuse that wall? Yeah. Kind of simpler. Simpler is better.

8:52 Yeah.

8:52 You know, so usually and and I don't want to just say, hey, there's only two different object or only two objectives, but if you just looked at it, um, well,

9:01 well, let me I'll just go the opposite first. If I had the mindset that, oh, I've got to sell this guy. I've got to bring in this account. I've got to close some opportunities.

9:12 If I have that mindset going in, what what are some of the behaviors that would follow that mindset? If I thought, "Oh, I got to sell this guy. I got to

9:19 lock him down." What do you think that would drive the salesperson to do? Just pushy immediately to the pitch.

9:26 Just trying to get the the credit card out that second, right?

9:31 Yeah. push push like a like a like a bulldozer push right through the call. Yeah.

9:36 If I just said, "Okay, I'm going to bring in a curiosity mindset and I'm calling this person and I'm going to

9:43 figure out based on what I do, like I do sales training. I'm going to call a VP of sales, a CRO or CEO and wonder, hey, how well is their sales team doing?

9:54 Are there any challenges or problems they're having that they're trying to improve upon?" So my first objective is to see if there's any problem, issue, challenge, goal or objective.

10:04 Yeah.

10:05 Around my service. The second thing is I I don't want to sell at this point. What I'd like to do is find out if there is

10:14 any curiosity or need around a problem that I can uncover, book a meeting. Yeah.

10:22 To set up now a sales call in the right type of environment.

10:27 So the other thing is and a lot of people make mistakes this whole and we're we're talking about calling the same thing would apply whether some

10:36 people still do walk-ins to companies some people go to trade shows uh it was

10:42 be used some people do networking the same concept's going to be you sending an email to attract people into the

10:50 conversation so it applies all the way around um So,

10:58 the first thing we're going to want to do is get that guard down. Mhm.

11:04 Okay. And because when I open up the call, so I'm sorry. So, we we talked about the objectives, finding a problem, booking a meeting, three minutes only.

11:14 Yeah.

11:15 Three, four maybe. Because if I go over that three to four minutes, what does that the prospecting call turns into a what?

11:25 a really rushed discovery call, I would assume. Yeah. It turns right into a sales call. Yeah.

11:32 Anything longer, it's a it comes a sale. You do not want a sales call. Yeah.

11:37 So, that's what I said, whether it's networking, trade shows, is there a problem, engage them enough, book a next meeting. So, the two objectives, find a problem, book a meeting.

11:48 Yeah.

11:49 So, that that that would be the three things we do. So, plan, tactics, techniques, and then mindset going in.

11:56 But if I go with a mindset going in, hey, I'm just trying to find a problem and I'm going to ask them questions. I'm not putting any weight on my shoulders to close anything.

12:07 Mhm.

12:07 And I know, hey, you know, some people will have a problem. Maybe I can talk and help them. Some won't. Who cares?

12:15 What's next? Yeah.

12:17 Because the other thing about prospecting is afterburn. after getting rejected, hung up on, same thing. We're

12:24 all, you know, you know, avoiding excuses, we're all set, we're already using. It's like, how can you bring the same energy to the, you know, it's it's tough.

12:33 Yeah.

12:34 So, you know, the genius behind Sandler is not only the skills to do this effectively, but keeping the salesperson's head in a great space.

12:44 Yeah. To make that next call.

12:47 So, th those are the three things. So, we you talked about, you know, how do how do you do that, right? Prospect picks up the phone and

12:57 how do we, you know, I like to just say the amygdala goes on fire. They they they pick it up and we say, "Hey,

13:04 Austin, how are you today?" And the prospect's thinking, "I don't know this person." Yeah. Right.

13:11 What do you want from me?

13:12 They sense tonality, that singy songy excited voice.

13:17 Yeah. Um, and then they might say something like, "Hey, I'd like to tell you about," and they start pitching

13:24 right away. So, subconsciously, it's the fight or flight, you know, it's either we're going to push or we're going to

13:33 run. So, what we have to do is we we have to, you know, and when we do this, I'm walking through like a this is a

13:41 second by- second process, right? I have to break that pattern.

13:47 You you mentioned I said I forget what words you said but I I I love what you said kind of was it a triggered response or a uh what did

13:55 I mean I don't know instinctual I mean that's just basically what happens right like yeah it's just the prospect's not even thinking about doing it they just do it

14:03 it's a trigger response so the first thing I'd want to do is I have to be different I have to break that

14:10 response pattern so we we do that thing you know one of the skills we have at Sandlers has called this thing a pattern interrupt is

14:19 that I want to break that pattern of the prospect going fight or flight and the mindset going is is creating curiosity.

14:29 I I need to keep the prospect curious to take them through this little stage. Yeah. Through these stages.

14:37 So I could be I mean there's a many different like pattern interprets. I'll give you one example and it's just being disarmingly honest.

14:49 Yeah.

14:51 What I'm going to do is I'm going to give you like a little pattern interrupt and you know and then in the Sandler methodologies this thing we call upfront contracts getting agreements and and

15:00 things like that. And a lot of this is researched and one of the things we found is what prospects don't like about receiving prospecting calls is number

15:09 one the salesperson doesn't stop talking. The call can go on forever.

15:15 It's a total pitch and there are no outcomes other than buy or or fly.

15:23 So, I'm going to I'm going to give you a I'm going to set the framework so I can get rid of that. So, I I'll just do a

15:31 quick role play. If you were my my prospect Austin, I'm calling you. Go for it. Yeah. On the ring ring ring. Hey. Hey, Austin. Yeah, this is Austin.

15:40 Hey. Yeah, Austin. Um, hey Joe Epelo calling. Um, hey, we've we haven't spoken before. Do you mind if I I take a

15:47 minute and tell you the reason for my call? Sure. Yeah, why not? Okay.

15:53 So, if you break that down, what didn't you hear? What didn't I say? Now, I I did it.

16:00 That's I'm with Sandler Training. What didn't I say?

16:03 You didn't say anything about what you know, who you were with. You know, what your full intention of was. You didn't even like give like a hint a hint at what you were going to talk about.

16:12 You were saying, "Can I tell you about that?" and then left it open is what it like. Yeah.

16:16 So, it's so funny because it's so simple and so many salespeople have a a tough time getting over that hurdle. Do not give your company name.

16:27 Yeah.

16:28 Because if I call and say my company name, what am I really saying behind my

16:35 company name? I'm here to do what? Yeah, you're trying to sell them something. I'm gonna sell them.

16:40 Going right into the pattern that you're trying to interrupt, right?

16:43 The amydala is exploding. In fact, I'd also argue that the top of their skull is just jumping off their brain is jumping off the top of their head.

16:51 Yeah.

16:52 So, again, I I have to avoid that. So, by just saying, "Hey, Joe Pledo calling Austin. Um, hey, you know, we've never

17:00 met before. Do you mind if I take a moment and tell you the reason for my call?" Yeah.

17:05 What what am I what what kind of So, by the way, what do you notice about my tonality?

17:11 It's polite, conversational. It looks like Hey, you don't Yeah. Right.

17:19 So, that that's I did my little upfront conscious. Hey, take a moment, tell you the reason for my call. And then you could even add

17:27 something like and then hey, you could decide if it's worth any any, you know, it's worth continuing. Mhm. That's like a 100enter the pro. Sure.

17:37 Yeah.

17:37 And even our little role play, did it not cook some curiosity? Yeah. Absolutely.

17:42 Yeah. So now at least they're somewhat receptive to the message.

17:47 So now I have to give it up, right? In most cases now I have to tell them, hey, my company is Sandler Training. Now,

17:55 watch what I'm going to do because a lot of things what prospects don't like is they we don't personalize it at all. We

18:03 sell one way to everybody and we don't have credibility coming into the call. They don't know who we

18:10 are. So, I'll pretend you're a VP of a technology company. Okay. And I might say something. Yeah.

18:18 So, hey, hey, Austin. Um my my company is Sandler Training and we help companies build high performance sales and sales leadership teams

18:26 and typically when I I get to talk to VPs of sales um I hear a couple of things out there in the marketplace all

18:33 the time and what they're telling me is is number one they they probably already do some training and maybe even have an

18:41 experienced team but for whatever reason they still have challenges prospecting effectively.

18:49 they just can't get their guys to get enough new meetings, so their pipeline isn't full of opportunities.

18:56 Or maybe number two, you know, they're they're getting a lot of opportunities, but the deals are just taking forever to close. They're not getting in front of the right people.

19:06 Or number three, you know, they're they're getting in front of the right people and they are closing business, but they're constantly discounting and

19:14 having to negotiate pricing. and maybe they don't know how to create enough value. Um, I don't want to pretend to

19:21 know your business, Austin, but before I ramble on about Sandler and what we do, any of that jump out at you?

19:29 Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Do you want me to be the the Well, yeah, you you can you can or you can.

19:33 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, yeah. My uh my guys aren't getting enough first meetings. Okay.

19:39 So, there So, so there we go. I've identified a problem and now at least

19:45 the other thing is you know when BDRs SDRs you know they they get meetings a lot of times they are unqualified

19:53 meetings they they couldn't tell if an A picks up the meeting or an account manager they they they don't you know hey why are they meeting well I don't

20:01 know they just were curious on meeting now I have a qual a partially qualified meeting that this person has a problem So, I've

20:10 I've changed and switched up the whole dynamic of this meeting. Now, if you noticed what I did at the beginning of

20:18 that call, I took away an objection from the prospect that we would see in our world,

20:25 like if we if we talk to prospects, they'd say, "Hey, Joe, we already do some training and hey, you know, we already have an

20:32 experienced team." Now, from my experience, I know that the training they're probably doing is probably not like what we do,

20:41 right? And having an experienced team doesn't mean it's a high performance team.

20:48 So, I took that away from them by acknowledging, hey, here's what I'm hearing out there and using a Sandler concept of a third party story.

20:59 Okay? So that keeps the amygdala settled down because I'm not saying hey Austin your team is not this you know this is

21:07 what I'm saying hey here's what other VPs are see or I'm hearing from other VPs and CRO's so now psychologically

21:16 it's social validation of others like them so by by acknowledging I have a lot of

21:23 conversations I have I've have credibility and expertise and now I make it easier for the prospect to open up and say, "Hey, you

21:32 know what? Yeah, those guys have that problem. Hey, you know what? I do, too." Yeah.

21:37 And so, I take the objection away and then get into three problems that I could potentially solve for them.

21:45 And a thing I've heard about that as well from other, you know, people is that um it also is giving them a compliment. So you're keeping their

21:52 amydala, you know, settled as well because you're going, you have a good team, you're doing training, you're doing a good job, but here's a hump that I can help you with. So you're going

22:01 like not coming in and attacking and being like, you suck. You suck. Now give me money. It's, hey, you're doing a great job, but maybe we can fix just this.

22:09 That's where we're in, right?

22:10 You're settling the amigdula by saying, hey, you're probably doing a good job. Probably already do some training. Probably getting a lot of this.

22:18 uh but on occasion and now I'm go from my experience in calling in that vertical or space I'm

22:26 going to call out problems that I've seen which is really my expertise as a salesperson is the knowledge I have from

22:34 calling on hundreds of companies or any salesperson I don't think a salespeople they have the mindset that

22:42 like hey you know they've called you know think about some sales teams doing 50 calls a day and things like that there's a lot of experience in the

22:49 verticals and what they know and their knowledge of the industry. Yeah.

22:54 But they never they never let that come out because they're constantly pitching instead of, hey, here's what we're seeing out in this vertical. Here's what

23:01 we're seeing in this space. Hey, are you seeing any of the same stuff?

23:06 If you are and you want to talk, maybe we should set a meeting.

23:11 If you aren't and things are perfect, hey, no problem. Hope Austin, we created some value for you. Either way, if something changes, hey, you know where to find me.

23:21 Yeah, it's, you know, I hear a lot about the idea of like a lead magnet, right?

23:27 And the idea of having like you got to lead with some sort of value. You got to, you know, come with something to give to them. And within your just your

23:34 quick example, what I'm al what I'm hearing is that lead magnet. Probably a terrible way to to phrase it, but like you're bringing value, which is, hey, I

23:43 have market data for you. I'm bringing this market data back to you and I've told it to you within 20 seconds and now you have market data and I haven't sent

23:51 you some PDF or I haven't made you go watch a video. I've given you market data within 20 seconds and then I've but I've also asked you permission to give

23:58 you that data and then I've got my next quickly.

24:02 I mean what what can I say to create value? Hey Austin, we're the number one sales training firm in the world. We we're the best thing that there's all

24:09 our value. Take you know isn't that great? Yeah. The value is your knowledge.

24:14 Sharing your value and experience with that prospect and telling them what you're seeing. And

24:21 look at at the end of the day, companies are going to work on problems first. Yeah.

24:26 Right. They solve problems first. All whoever you're calling on, they have a a a priority list of a million things.

24:33 And the priority list, the top of that priority list is work on these problems. Let's fix this.

24:39 Yeah. So, I want to find out if I can get on that list and make them aware of maybe a problem they weren't aware of or

24:46 dig in a little bit, which I would by I'm not doing the end of the call because there's a little more to it that we would continue with.

24:53 But I'm del that's the value I'm delivering to them.

24:57 Yeah. I think it's interesting too because you're doing you're keeping it very like problem oriented, example oriented.

25:05 You're not telling them how you're going to solve it at all. and is making it so it's easier to say like to keep it open so you can actually have a real

25:13 discovery call to really dig in and find where you attach to what their biggest problems are or maybe you don't at all and then you can just end the conversation then but instead of having

25:21 it be in that initial amigda amydala unsettled at any point in time you're letting it be for they've set

25:28 aside the time they've agreed to it they're in control of that time versus being am the other thing allowing them to feel in control

25:37 have just conversational and and the other thing I'm not attached to the outcome. Yeah.

25:44 I'm you know the it's like why would I expect to call a hundred people and they're all going to buy? I mean I don't

25:52 know. But I I know if they have a problem if it makes sense to get a next step and set up a meeting, we can do that. Yeah.

25:58 If they're not, then that's fine. But I do know something. In most cases, if you know

26:06 the business and the industry, things change. Yeah.

26:10 And and no matter what, I want to be the guy they call back. For whatever reason, this wasn't a good time or they they remembered the call. I was different than everybody else.

26:20 I gave them some market data and information. I created equal business stature. And if they're interested, hey, great.

26:28 I'm happy to book a meeting. If they're not, no problem. next case. Does this guy have a problem? Yeah.

26:35 Who find the problem? And then you'll find that meeting.

26:39 Well, when you approach it this way that you're talking about, you really are, if you truly are curious, you really are finding out whether or not this is a

26:47 problem for them. And whether or not you have an amazing business that is number one and has all the widgets and all the great stuff, that really might not be a problem for that company. Not every

26:55 company has that problem. And if it is a problem, it also might be so low on the list that it really isn't right for them to be addressing it. Like

27:03 I get these uh calls for people wanting to sell me business insurance and I'm like, "Hey man, we're a startup. If somebody sues us, we're going under." Like

27:11 there's no there's no point in having this insurance.

27:17 Well, I No, I love that because like you know, Sandler, we've got obviously great methodology and system, but it's guided

27:24 by these rules. And one of the Sandler rules is people buy for their reasons, not yours. Yeah.

27:32 So, and everyone has their different reasons. So, when you say how can you possibly pitch someone on a call when

27:40 you don't understand if there's a problem and then what are their reasons for the problem and how is it impacting them?

27:46 Yeah. H it it just it's senseless. It's it's senseless.

27:51 Yeah. And that's so that that's a good mindset that you just u articulated.

27:57 Yeah. And then so when but you did say I have a precautionary tale at the beginning of this which is don't let this become more than three minutes or even I mean I assume even less would be great as long as you get that meeting.

28:07 Yeah.

28:08 What would be the techniques that somebody could employ to make sure it doesn't start turning into a 15-inute discovery call and all of a sudden

28:16 you're going past what your intended goal is?

28:18 Yeah. So that that's a great and I say three minutes. Look, there's all sales is situational, right? So, there's no hard clock stop. But, you know, it's

28:26 it's just in the back of my head. I do not want to get into sales mode. Yeah.

28:31 Okay. Now, I did not give you the end of that call. And if the prospect gave me that problem, how would I would then

28:39 handle it with a few additional qualifying questions, then book a meeting.

28:45 But there's a segue point. There's an inflection point where at some point I'd ask you a couple of questions to probe a little bit deeper. Okay. And then I might just say, "Hey, hey, Austin, look.

28:55 I I know I just called you out of the blue. Hey, can I make a suggestion?" Yeah.

29:01 Now, I asked a question and I I zipped up. I'm silent. Again, that's a 95enter. Yeah. Sure.

29:11 Sure. Then I'll I'll book my meeting.

29:13 So, and again that that those are my words, but it's a nice like, hey, let okay, let's just stop. I've got what I

29:20 need. I this person has a problem. I've I've uncovered some of the impacts of that problem, and I just might say, hey, hey, Austin, uh, can I can I make a

29:29 suggestion here? I know I caught you totally out of the blue.

29:32 Why don't we book a 30 minute call? We can further explore some of those challenges so I can get a better understanding of them. at the same time

29:41 answer any questions you have about Sandler. And then from there, if there's any mutual interest, we could decide what next steps would possibly look like. And if not, no harm, no foul.

29:51 Either way, you'll get additional value from this call.

29:54 Yeah, I think that's great. It's easy. There's no pressure. Yeah.

30:00 Um, some will, some won't. So, what? Who's next?

30:06 Onto the onto the next one. But I can I'll I'll raise significantly my conversion rates through this little

30:15 somewhat of a process that I gave you significantly.

30:20 And it's not going to be about making more calls. It's be about being more effective with the calls you're making.

30:30 So that's that's basically um Yeah. I mean the the the the prospect it's magic. It's it's magic when you know not

30:38 only for the salespeople but obviously the results but keeping them in a good place and at the same time it's building their skills

30:47 because a lot of BDR and SDR they don't want to stay BDRs forever. They want to get promoted to AEES and AM's and now

30:54 they're learning the same skill set on a cold call that would be applied in a sales deal only obviously it's you know

31:03 it's it's more it's it's I don't want to say elaborated that's not the right word but the the sales call is a condensed version of the methodology that they would run on a on a on a meeting.

31:16 Yeah. So they're learning specific skills that are replicable that would now be applied to the meeting but expanded upon.

31:24 Yeah. I'll say uh for anyone listening, I have gone from the don't know how to make a good cold call, just pitch pitching right away to using this type

31:33 of method and I've learned some great nuances here. Um uh it's worked for me.

31:38 Like it's completely changed my ability to make calls to feel comfortable making them because the permission structure makes me feel more comfortable.

31:45 Yeah. And then just the effectiveness and getting actual conversions into first book meetings. I mean it's it's just night and day. It's not even it's not even the same.

31:54 I I think the one thing that makes Sandler kind of unique is you know we we we don't get you know Sandler's not giving us we're not sitting on the couch

32:03 getting leads from Sandler to do training. Yeah.

32:05 We we sell to train. So what we talk about doing and applying with the Sandler methodology, we also do that to

32:14 build our book of business and do what our customers are doing. I had to make 50 calls a day to build my book of business. So I had to use these skills.

32:24 So when we're with the team, it's not we're giving them everything that we do on a day-to-day basis that have refined

32:32 over the years through hundreds of trainers around the world to get the best possible practice and methodology

32:39 and outcome out there. So we like to say we kind of eat our own dog food.

32:44 I like drink your own champagne, but both work.

32:47 That's better. I'd rather drink my own I'd rather drink my own champagne than eat my own dog food.

32:51 Either way, you're practicing what you preach and it shows. practice what you preach. Yes, that's even better. That's even better.

32:57 So, uh, so we're up on time, but before I let you go, I want to ask the same question I ask everybody, which is if somebody's listening in and they're going to take one thing away from this

33:04 and make sure that they apply this to like their daily practice or to their team or to their business in some way, what is that one thing that they really

33:12 need to take away from this conversation?

33:15 I mean, that's going to be more from what they take away. I think we find like different people take away different things. Yeah.

33:22 Right. I mean, if you you're asking me, so I tell you, do not sell on a prospecting call.

33:30 Just keep it into the goal of this is to be curious and to book a meeting. Correct. Stop.

33:35 Now, now granted, you know, let me just make one nuance because like I said, sales is situational. You could be in some business with a one call close.

33:44 Yeah.

33:45 Okay. But when you're talking about companies where you're not selling on price,

33:52 there's some dollars involved, it has to do about learning about their business and establishing long-term relationships where there's ongoing revenue opportunities.

34:01 Got it.

34:02 This is the way you have to go. I don't want to the one call close guys diff some of the same things obviously a

34:09 little bit different. Um, but the regardless it's it's building that relationship. If they go with us set a

34:18 meeting, great. If they don't, also not not that's great, too. I want to leave a good impression.

34:24 Get those call backs when something changes down the road and remember that experience they had with um a non salesperson salesperson.

34:35 Yeah. Well, I'll say I've called somebody six months later and I didn't expect them to remember me and they did and we were pleasant time and we were

34:43 pleasant the second time and I've actually had a few of those turn into conversations because you know same and I just expected them to forget me and they didn't.

34:51 Great. Well, has things changed? like actually and it doesn't happen often but you know it is you know still money in the bank to be able to have started the

34:59 relationship and maintained it and somebody saying no is part of starting that relationship that that's part of it's part of sales I

35:06 mean it's you know I I was just noticing one fact I don't know if we're still recording or off we are we are keep going you follow do you follow like baseball

35:15 major league baseball very very lightly okay I don't know where this statistic came from I'm not going to give a number

35:22 cuz it was so low it was shocking. There are way fewer 300 hitters today than there were like 10 years ago.

35:31 Mhm. Like 300 was the magic, you know, 300.

35:35 You're in the That's Allstar, right? Hoff.

35:37 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, like the the numbers are out outrageous of how few players now bat 300.

35:46 And they're the best at the game that they could be. Yeah.

35:52 And and we're we're kind of in that same ballpark.

35:55 You know, I'm not going to say, you know, we're not going to bat um 500, you know, making prospecting calls, but, you

36:03 know, we've got a process, we've got a system, we roll through that as as best as effectively as we can. We adapt it.

36:10 We're situational with it, and we we will we will have that high batting average and succeed. Yeah.

36:18 Well, with that, Joe, I really appreciate you coming on, sharing some wisdom, and having a great conversation about prospecting. Great, Austin.