Joe English on Targeted Prospecting, Buyer Intent, and Sales Fundamentals

Transcript

0:02 Well, Joe, we were talking a little bit

0:03 beforehand and you were saying that

0:05 you've seen uh prospecting really evolve

0:07 since you started your career in sales.

0:10 Uh tell me a little bit more about that.

0:12 >> Well, it's a um yeah, it's a funny

0:16 memory. Like I remember my very first

0:17 sales job um was okay, build a list of

0:22 all the people you know because I

0:23 started selling when I was still in

0:24 school, right? So, um, goodness

0:28 gracious, it's like Cutco cutlery. It,

0:31 you know, it was, uh, I sold radar

0:34 detectors, just anything I could do to

0:36 try to turn a buck. Um, cuz I was paying

0:39 for school myself, right? But my first

0:41 professional job, um, you know, you're

0:44 sitting in kind of, it's not even really

0:45 cubes. It was like a wall with, you

0:47 know, little stansions and, you know,

0:49 phone bank and it was it was a phone

0:51 book. Like we literally were just

0:53 calling people straight up out of the

0:54 phone book.

0:55 >> Yeah.

0:55 >> And you were just going down a list and

0:58 that was prospecting. And so you we

1:02 worked through some really simple

1:04 generic scripts, right? But that's how

1:06 it was in the old days. It was a it was

1:08 a

1:10 an old school phone, [clears throat]

1:12 not mobile phones that we have today.

1:15 >> Um I think some of them were still

1:17 rotary. Um cuz yes, I am that old. um

1:21 push button was like wow and DTMF. Um so

1:24 I grew up in telecom so I may throw out

1:26 telecom terms but um anyway it just it's

1:30 very much different. So in today's

1:31 world, we have just a slew of tools,

1:35 software,

1:36 >> VOIPE, right? So voice over IP for

1:39 people who don't know that. Uh it's it's

1:43 just a different game, right? Lots of

1:45 things that we can leverage. Um and you

1:48 know, we're in this multi- channelannel

1:50 world, which we can talk about more, but

1:51 it's just it's just a very very

1:53 different game. And um it's not so much

1:57 brute force, right, the way it used to

1:59 be. I mean there's still an element of

2:01 brute force but brute force can also get

2:03 you in trouble in today's world with

2:06 technologies right it's pretty easy to

2:08 get blacklisted but yeah prospecting is

2:11 uh it has evolved tremendously over the

2:15 years um and you know I grew up in an

2:18 age where well first of all we always

2:21 went to the office right every single

2:22 day it was kind of the way it was and we

2:25 also wore jackets and ties so thank god

2:28 that that trend changed. But um yeah,

2:32 it's um

2:34 it's you know, we're hybrid now. We have

2:36 the ability to be remote. We can work

2:38 from anywhere with laptops and mobile

2:41 phones and hotspots and just uh software

2:45 packages. And so you have to be smarter.

2:48 Um you have to be willing to try things.

2:50 Um used to be 100% an activity game,

2:53 right? Just cranking numbers

2:56 >> and the more you did, the better your

2:58 results were. Um even though maybe your

3:01 conversion percentages which we didn't

3:03 even call it conversion back then it was

3:05 just you know how many converted into an

3:08 actual prospect um from a lead list

3:11 >> and so it's just very different you know

3:14 uh just the whole nature of how we

3:16 prospect how we track measure and

3:18 monitor that how we get feedback around

3:20 it it's a brave new world these days

3:24 >> yeah I want to dig into some of the the

3:27 advancements that you talked about

3:28 especally Sure. Unlike the brute force

3:30 um especially because that seems to be

3:31 something that technology is enabling

3:33 which can also be a problem.

3:35 >> Um but I have a curiosity. Do you feel

3:37 like there's fundamentals that were from

3:40 like the old school approach that still

3:43 hold value today's atmosphere or

3:46 environment? Yeah, I would tell you just

3:48 based on experience and doing this quite

3:50 a bit, right, throughout my W2 life,

3:54 >> working for other people and building

3:56 systems and now consulting and doing it

3:59 more frequently and helping SMBs kind of

4:02 figure it out,

4:03 >> you know, non-enterprise, right, without

4:05 the same level of resources. Yeah.

4:07 >> You know, I look at the core things,

4:09 right? So I think about, you know, at

4:11 360 Consulting, we have a proven process

4:15 um around how we do an assessment or

4:18 diagnostic of a business, kind of figure

4:20 out what's really going on, and then

4:21 build out that infrastructure for them.

4:23 And this is one piece in one of the four

4:26 pillars. So it's it's a small sliver of

4:29 everything that we do, but it's a really

4:30 important sliver. And it touches on some

4:33 of the other things that we do. And so

4:36 we think about these four foundational

4:38 pillars of it is your go to market

4:42 strategy, your people, you know, the

4:44 organization, your process and of course

4:47 lead genen is at the front end of the

4:49 sales process and then execution. And so

4:53 thinking about lead genen where it

4:55 touches on some of those other pillars,

4:58 ICP, right, number one. And way back in

5:02 the day, we kind of thought about who's

5:04 a good client for us. And it depends

5:05 upon what your, you know, your your

5:07 product offerings, whether you're

5:08 selling a product, a service, you know,

5:11 you know, software, hardware, doesn't

5:12 matter. Whatever it is,

5:15 sometimes anybody can be a client.

5:18 Sometimes very niche people can be

5:20 clients. So, you have to figure that

5:22 piece out. But

5:24 >> I think that's always translated. So

5:26 knowing your customer

5:28 >> um something that's newer is uh timing

5:32 right so leveraging signalbased timing

5:35 to understand are they in the market at

5:38 that time which you don't know well

5:40 nowadays we have technology back in the

5:41 day we didn't have technology that would

5:43 help us understand intent as an example

5:46 >> um value you know like what's your

5:49 what's your value prop that's that's

5:51 always I think translated right what

5:53 value can you deliver to somebody um as

5:56 a business or a person. Um quality um

6:02 prospecting well, you know, quality

6:06 leads, quality targets. Yeah. Over

6:08 quantity. It used to be brute force, but

6:11 if you, you know, Glen Gary, Glenn Ross,

6:14 right? Patented uh sales movie. I want

6:18 the good leads, right? So, we we always

6:21 want better leads. um

6:24 and and really just being able to

6:27 establish some level of trust, right?

6:29 Those are things that I think have

6:31 transitioned along the path. There's

6:33 some newer things that, you know, like

6:35 intent, leveraging AI and

6:38 infrastructure, you know, things like

6:40 that that are very additive in today's

6:42 world that didn't exist, you know, four

6:45 decades ago when I when I started out.

6:47 But um I think those are really key

6:50 elements that were always there and if

6:52 you found a way to leverage those key

6:54 things, you were better off. You'd get

6:57 better results.

6:58 >> They can't ditch that. I I like the uh

7:00 anybody can be what into the niche and

7:04 just like [laughter]

7:05 I love that the I love the enthusiasm of

7:07 somebody that's like I believe this

7:08 product can work for everybody and like

7:10 there's nothing wrong with that belief

7:11 system. However,

7:13 >> however,

7:14 >> more targeted might get you some better

7:16 results as well.

7:17 >> Oh, for sure. We uh we preach all the

7:20 time niches to riches. So, it's it just

7:23 simply put you you can't be all things

7:26 to everyone, right? It's the old jack of

7:29 all trades, master of none. Well, when I

7:31 want somebody to solve a problem for me,

7:33 I want the master, right? Um I want the

7:35 person who's an expert at that to solve

7:38 my problem for me.

7:39 >> Yeah. And would you say that you know

7:41 wanting the expert at that is one of the

7:44 reasons that you need to be cautionary

7:45 about like this bulk approach that

7:47 people are taking or like this mass.

7:50 Do you mind tying those together a

7:51 little bit?

7:52 >> Sure. So you know the bulk approach can

7:56 be effective depending upon the you know

7:59 the market you know how general is your

8:01 product or application or service that

8:04 you're um selling into the marketplace.

8:07 And so if there's, you know, millions

8:09 and millions of prospects, you can do a

8:11 little bit more of a bulk approach, but

8:13 you have to you have to enable

8:14 technology to allow that properly. Most

8:17 of our clients, and again, we don't

8:18 really work in the enterprise space. Um,

8:21 you know, I I lived there for a long

8:23 time in my corporate life, uh, but we

8:25 work with SMBs who don't have the

8:27 infrastructure, need help understanding

8:28 how to do these things.

8:30 >> Yeah.

8:30 >> And they tend to be I give you here's a

8:34 real life uh case study.

8:37 We've had several um outsourced IT, you

8:40 know, managed service providers. And one

8:43 of the things that it's not always true,

8:45 but we see it more often than not is you

8:48 go to their website and they'll have 50

8:50 plus logos on there.

8:51 >> And they're like, "Well, yeah, yeah, we

8:53 can work on all this stuff." I'm like,

8:54 "Yeah, but what are you really good at?

8:56 Like, what's your best? What's your core

8:57 competency?" Oh, yeah. No, we can do all

8:59 of it, right? Because we can help

9:00 anybody with this. I'm like, "Yeah, but

9:02 what's your most efficient?" because

9:04 they don't even think they realize where

9:06 they make their true margin on those

9:10 applications. Where do they have rock

9:12 stars who are certified and do it every

9:15 day and so they're super efficient in

9:16 how they deliver and they just don't

9:18 think about that back end of it, right?

9:22 Because they they don't want to pass up

9:23 a client. I'm like, well, I get that.

9:26 But figure out what you're absolutely

9:28 best at and the problems you solve most

9:30 frequently and then, you know, knock on

9:34 that door enough times where you pound

9:36 it open and then it's just a free flood

9:39 of business and then go find another

9:41 door to knock on.

9:42 >> Yeah.

9:43 >> And so you can do bulk,

9:46 >> but I think that there those are um more

9:49 outliers. Maybe not completely outliers,

9:52 but in today's world, you need to have a

9:54 really good targeted list around your

9:57 target market for your best clients. So,

10:00 you have to know who are your best

10:01 clients, why are they your best clients,

10:04 who are not, and why are they not. So,

10:07 then you focus your time and effort. So,

10:10 the thing that I've learned about

10:12 salespeople, having managed thousands of

10:14 them in my career, is that well, they'll

10:16 chase a deal. They'll chase just about

10:18 any deal

10:21 >> and they will literally it's like a dog

10:24 chasing its tail, right? It sometimes

10:26 you can't catch the deal because it's a

10:28 bad deal, right? It's just not a good

10:30 fit. So, why waste that time and effort

10:33 getting more selective because it's your

10:36 best market with a a buyer persona that

10:39 matches up really well. You understand

10:41 what their needs are. You've qualified.

10:44 You've done good discovery. uh you

10:46 understand their challenges, you have a

10:48 solution that fits

10:51 you. You've listened, they understand

10:54 that, and now price isn't really the

10:56 consideration because they know you can

10:58 solve their problem, right? And so it's

11:00 kind of like, okay, this is where I am

11:02 and it's costing me something. You can

11:04 get me to where I want to be and there's

11:06 a reward there. So price is no longer

11:08 really the conversation. It's how

11:11 quickly can we get to that endpoint

11:13 solution. And that's what being more

11:16 targeted and being more niche focused

11:18 will do for you, right? You get into

11:20 better conversations more quickly with

11:23 people who want what you have.

11:25 >> Yeah. You know, I don't know if I'm

11:27 sensitive to this because it's

11:29 competitors reaching out to me, but I I

11:31 my software is in the prospecting

11:33 solution space. I get people sending

11:36 what I feel is very sloppy outreach to

11:39 me [laughter]

11:40 saying, "Hey, uh," and it's clearly I

11:43 because they say, "Hey." And I see they

11:45 state the value prop of my company. And

11:47 then the next sentence is repeating my

11:49 value prop back to me as something they

11:51 can do for me. And I go, "There's no way

11:53 a human decided to reach out to me and

11:56 say this."

11:57 >> Um, but sometimes what I'll do is if

11:59 they say that and they're like, "Hey,

12:00 can I send you some more?" I'll go,

12:01 "Sure. if you want to drop competitive

12:03 intel into my lap and provide me this

12:06 extra information on how you guys are

12:07 doing what you're doing, maybe I can,

12:09 you know, maybe there's a little trade

12:10 secret that I can pull out of what you

12:12 just sent me. Um, so, so to me, that's

12:15 like a very damaging bulk outreach

12:17 without a lot of care and attention,

12:18 paid attention to it, but then again,

12:20 you know, I'm in a unique space. Have

12:23 you seen other folks in other industries

12:25 or other settings where that same type

12:27 of bulk outreach can actually damage,

12:29 you know, their their

12:31 >> Oh, we've had clients blacklisted,

12:33 right? Um because they're not doing it

12:36 correctly from a technology perspective

12:38 and setting up their aliases and

12:39 whatnot. So, so understanding the back

12:42 end of how that technology works for

12:45 doing bulk emails or or LinkedIn and of

12:47 course LinkedIn restricts how much you

12:49 can do and you know there's certain ways

12:51 around it but you know they keep upping

12:54 the game in terms of what you can and

12:56 can't do. Um so I tell people don't do

13:00 so much that you'd ever put yourself in

13:01 trouble, right? Be smart about it. Um

13:04 but it's also if you do highly targeted

13:08 um you know valued

13:12 driven personalized

13:14 based on intent because there's tools

13:17 you know data tools that will allow you

13:18 to understand intent.

13:21 um you're just better off, right? And

13:23 and keep it about solving a problem with

13:26 a result, right? So, we're big fans of

13:29 uh the book, you know, New Sales

13:31 Simplified, written a long time ago by

13:33 Mike Weinberg. Super smart guy. Could

13:36 have written the book. I didn't, so he

13:38 gets credit for it. Um but, you know,

13:41 it's a uh there's a chapter and a half

13:43 in there on the sales story, which is

13:45 great. So, it's a it's a a power

13:48 statement followed by transition

13:50 statements to get you to a

13:51 differentiator, and you deliver it in,

13:52 say, 30 seconds. And it's really just

13:54 about

13:56 talking to a prospective client

13:59 contextually about a problem they likely

14:01 have. You may not know for a fact they

14:03 have it, but um it puts them at the at

14:08 the center of the story. And so, I

14:09 consider it way better than pitching

14:11 because when we pitch Well, we're

14:13 talking about how cool we are. Yeah.

14:16 >> And they don't care how cool we are.

14:18 They care about their problems and their

14:20 stuff, right? And so keeping it about

14:22 them makes sense. And I think this is

14:24 the same. And that's where intent. So if

14:26 you can understand intent, what people

14:27 are looking for and because they're down

14:30 a path already, right? If you think

14:32 about the buyer's journey. So we're

14:35 sellers, right? So we have our journey.

14:37 And the reality is you got a buyer's

14:40 journey and a seller's journey. And so

14:41 the question is where are they going to

14:42 meet, right? And in the old days you met

14:46 way earlier in the process and then now

14:49 you know current times with all the

14:51 technology

14:52 used to be the internet now it's the

14:54 internet and AI people can be 60 70 plus

14:59 percent down the path before they ever

15:02 engage someone. So you have to be

15:04 prepared for that. Um, and so

15:07 understanding intent because they've

15:08 done some looking around is super

15:11 helpful. And then you can be way smarter

15:14 when you talk to them and also get to

15:16 the point of how you can deliver value

15:19 much quicker. And quite frankly, if it's

15:21 about them and you're just trying to

15:23 solve a problem and you can't solve it

15:24 and you back off,

15:27 >> good for you, right? Because good karma

15:30 begets good karma, right? So, but you've

15:33 also disqualified yourself and and taken

15:36 the time and effort of chasing a bad

15:39 deal off your plate and now go chase a

15:42 better deal, right? So, being more

15:44 efficient with your time and energy,

15:46 super super important.

15:48 >> Yeah. And you you've talked about intent

15:50 and triggers and those being things that

15:52 are new and available. Um, for somebody

15:54 who's maybe getting into the world of

15:57 understanding that or wasn't even aware

15:58 and is like, wait, what is that? what

16:00 would be your introduction to those and

16:02 then how would you suggest people start

16:04 thinking about building those into their

16:06 processes?

16:07 >> Sure. Yeah. So, it's a um you know this

16:10 is part of the challenge of a business,

16:12 right? Is okay who who does this stuff,

16:15 right? So, so there's all these kind of,

16:18 you know, things to think about if you

16:20 boil it down to it, right? Knowing your

16:22 ICP,

16:23 um what are those signals or intent? How

16:26 do you figure that out? um you know what

16:30 channels do you use right email calling

16:33 LinkedIn other depending upon your

16:36 business you know Insta Tik Tok you know

16:39 whatever it is so if you're B toC lots

16:42 of channels if you're B2B fewer channels

16:45 um you know what technology are you

16:48 going to use to help try to automate

16:50 some of this or build your cadences all

16:52 that stuff and then how do you take

16:56 um your uh brand and thought leadership

16:59 around maybe what it is they're looking

17:01 for, right? So intent is a great is a

17:04 great piece of that and who does it. So

17:06 there's companies that you can go to to

17:08 find this kind of information, right? So

17:10 in the old days we bought lists because

17:12 well that was the available technology

17:15 of the day and the downside of a list is

17:17 the second it's published no it's out of

17:20 date, right? It's no longer valid.

17:22 Most of the companies that did list back

17:24 in the day now do it via software,

17:26 right? So, it's a subscription,

17:28 there's oodles of them. Um, we happen to

17:32 use an AI partner um that we like quite

17:36 a bit. Um, and they aggregate from

17:39 multiple data sources. So, they're

17:41 subscribing to, I think, four or five of

17:44 the largest known databases out there,

17:46 right? There's there's a bunch of them.

17:47 You can anybody can do research and

17:49 figure out who these companies are, but

17:51 some of them are really good at doing

17:52 intent. So, I'm not here to

17:53 commercialize because we've used a lot

17:55 of them, right? Um, so we use one that

17:57 aggregates data, which also helps to

18:00 keep it more valid, right? Because if

18:01 it's in three out of the five data

18:03 sources, it's probably better valid

18:05 data. And then they layer in a bunch of

18:07 AI technology on top of it. But there's

18:11 a way to get intent, which is are people

18:15 looking for things, right? So, as an

18:17 example, I'm a sales consultant. Um, and

18:20 we're more about we're not a we're not a

18:22 prospecting expert. We we do that as a

18:24 function of we build sales systems for

18:26 companies based on how they do things.

18:28 So, we don't bring in um a package

18:31 system. But if I was looking for people

18:33 who are searching for sales consulting,

18:37 I can go look for data and look for the

18:40 intent that they were searching for that

18:43 based on their search histories, right?

18:45 And so all that can be tracked. That's

18:47 what cookies are, right? When we're

18:48 agreeing to cookies and things of that

18:50 nature. So most of the things we do get

18:53 tracked in some way. It may not come

18:55 back to us as an individual, but it

18:57 would come back to the IP of the

18:59 organization. So they would know that

19:01 XYZ company is searching for sales

19:04 consulting. Boo, that's intent. And so

19:06 now I can target them better knowing

19:09 that they've actually done some

19:11 investigating on what it is I offer. And

19:14 so that's where today's technologies can

19:17 really benefit any size company, but

19:21 especially small companies, those

19:23 subscriptions where you don't have a

19:24 whole team of people to go do that work.

19:27 You can you can subscribe to some of

19:29 that. Um, now you have to budget for it,

19:31 but it it's available to you, which is

19:33 really cool. So, and again, a lot of

19:35 these technologies are available in

19:37 single subscriptions up to if you've got

19:39 a small team of people or a mid-size

19:41 team of people. Um, and you could have,

19:44 you know, just your sales ops folks do

19:46 that if you're big enough to have a

19:48 sales ops person or department versus,

19:51 um, a lot of small business where it is

19:53 kind of one throat to choke, right? It

19:55 is the account executive is also

19:58 marketing and sourcing their own leads

20:00 and making their own cold calls and

20:02 sending their own emails and kind of

20:05 doing everything at once.

20:07 >> Yeah. And in terms of like the intent,

20:09 like how deep do you like to get with

20:11 that? Are you using those sources to

20:13 find out who's searching or are you

20:14 going layers deep? Like how do you think

20:16 about that and it's maybe they're turn

20:18 at some point? Like you could somebody

20:20 to go spy on every single person you

20:22 want to talk to but that might cost

20:23 >> Yeah, you can. And what we try to do is

20:26 um we try to coach folks into

20:30 a start at the organizational level if

20:32 you can get to the individual level or

20:35 best guess and that's where AI kind of

20:37 comes into from a scoring perspective.

20:39 it can do data research and say based on

20:41 these roles within the organization. So

20:44 yes, we try to dig several layers deep

20:46 and there are some tools that are

20:48 available out there in the market that

20:49 can help you with that. Um you can also

20:52 then go look at their LinkedIn and so

20:54 the partner we use combines

20:58 um email traffic LinkedIn um networks so

21:02 it can take an entire organization's

21:04 LinkedIn and put it into one uh brain

21:07 instance. So if you have 15 50 people

21:11 that work in the organization, it will

21:13 look at everyone's LinkedIn and then not

21:16 just their first degree, but then their

21:18 second degree and all those people's

21:20 second degree connection. So it builds a

21:22 really big repository of data. So it can

21:25 search all that and give you most likely

21:28 individuals

21:30 and then you can say, "Oh, well, hey,

21:32 write me an email." because it's got

21:34 chat embedded and it can write you an

21:36 email or an email cadence to that

21:39 individual also referencing who they

21:41 know. So it can say, "Oh, hey, you know,

21:44 we're both connected to so and so. We

21:46 did a project for them. Would love to

21:48 chat with you about the results they

21:49 got." Simple, easy, clean hook. Right.

21:52 So

21:53 >> nice. And then um you've also mentioned

21:55 a couple times like the multi-channel

21:57 and [clears throat] more than just one

22:00 um you know for folks that are stuck in

22:03 maybe just email mode. Do you mind

22:05 expanding on why it's important to maybe

22:07 not just have you know a bot sending out

22:10 five emails an hour which is safe and

22:11 going to keep you below spam filter. So

22:14 >> maybe not effective.

22:16 >> Maybe not effective.

22:17 >> Yeah. Multi- channelannel especially in

22:19 the BTOC space is is just super critical

22:22 right. Um

22:24 so I used to do this talk uh we do a

22:28 fair amount of uh seminars and public

22:30 speaking and I used to do this talk uh

22:32 kind of coming out of co like what's

22:34 changed with covid and a lot changed

22:37 right for for all of us

22:39 >> but some of it was already in the

22:42 process of changing it's just that co

22:44 threw a gasoline on the fire right and

22:47 one of those was you know uh multi-

22:50 channelannel campaigns for business

22:52 Right? And so I think of it in the B2B

22:56 space as you've got your direct selling,

23:00 right? And you're using things like

23:01 email calls. You're connecting on

23:04 LinkedIn. It's a channel. It's a

23:06 platform. You might use others Facebook

23:09 because B2B you can't you can have a

23:10 business Facebook page the same as a

23:12 personal Facebook page. Um and you might

23:15 have other channels such as distribution

23:18 channels, right, that help you get to

23:19 market. Um, and you have to think about

23:22 all those in the BTOC space. Channels

23:24 are any conceivable social platform

23:27 where people are and are looking for

23:29 things or not looking for things.

23:32 They're to be entertained, but all

23:35 platforms

23:37 were and are geared for two things. Data

23:39 capture and marketing purposes, right?

23:42 So, you can advertise on those and

23:45 that's an amazing way to be where people

23:49 are. So, I used to make this joke. One

23:52 of the most amazing things in the world

23:56 since all these cool devices came out.

23:59 Got this. Got a tablet. Got a laptop. I

24:01 got a Surface. I got a desktop.

24:05 There's a lot of ways to be connected in

24:06 today's world. There's a lot of ways to

24:09 reach out and touch someone.

24:12 Pretty amazing. as a business person. Oh

24:15 my gosh, there's so many ways I have to

24:18 try to reach out and touch someone.

24:20 >> Yeah. Right.

24:21 >> Because I don't know how they want to be

24:23 connected to me or engage with me. And

24:26 so the reality is we tell people to the

24:29 extent it's possible, you should be

24:32 everywhere you can be based upon how

24:35 people consume whatever goods or

24:38 services you offer. And so if you're B

24:42 toC, there's way more channels to be out

24:44 there. So every social platform that you

24:47 could advertise or get content onto, I

24:50 would say you should do it. In the B2B

24:52 space, you know, LinkedIn is obviously

24:54 the number one way that you know,

24:56 business people consume information. Um,

25:00 but uh there are others.

25:02 >> Your email is obviously we all we all

25:06 get emails, so do good ones. Don't do

25:08 crappy ones to the degree I don't I

25:11 should start doing what you're doing. Um

25:13 seeing what I can get uh in terms of

25:15 people's information when they send me,

25:18 hey, we can help you with your sales.

25:19 Really? Okay. So, [laughter] tell me how

25:21 you're going to do that because I do I

25:23 get those all the time.

25:24 >> But what I do is I save a lot of that

25:26 stuff um both the good and the bad. I

25:29 don't save all of it. I save the worst

25:31 and the best and I share it with clients

25:34 as hey, here's an example of some stuff

25:35 that I got. This is what I'm talking

25:38 about when I say don't do this. And this

25:40 is what I'm talking about when here's a

25:42 good example of a well ststructured, you

25:45 know, great um subject and to the point

25:50 discussed a problem and a solve all in

25:54 the preview pane. That's it. It's like

25:57 that's good because it's relevant. And

25:59 I'm like, huh, I'm actually going to

26:02 reach out to that person. [laughter] So

26:04 >> because you know they did a good job

26:06 because this is part of my business,

26:08 right? And so um yeah, so email calling

26:12 is not dead.

26:14 >> It's harder.

26:16 It's way harder especially since co

26:20 remote work. Everybody's on a mobile so

26:22 nobody answers a phone anymore. Um it

26:26 just they don't answer the landline the

26:27 way they used to or the office phone.

26:30 >> Um so it's harder but it's not dead. You

26:32 just have to be really really good at

26:34 it. Um, it takes practice and and it

26:36 takes patience. And it's like anything,

26:38 sales is a little bit of a numbers game.

26:40 But if you do all these things, if you

26:43 target properly, you understand that

26:45 there could be intent, they might

26:47 actually be in the market for what you

26:48 have, you understand the buyer persona,

26:51 you know what value you could deliver to

26:53 them, and then you put that into a very

26:56 concise, you know, message to somebody,

26:59 you'll have better results, right? So,

27:02 little bit of an activity game, but it's

27:04 not brute force the way it used to be.

27:06 You can up your your conversion

27:08 percentages by simply being better,

27:10 right? And being better is not a

27:12 strategy. Hopefully, people hear all

27:15 these little things and realize there is

27:16 a strategy to it, [laughter] but just in

27:18 general, being better at prospecting and

27:22 and trying to do your outreach, you'll

27:24 get better results.

27:26 >> Yeah. I I mean I can speak from my own

27:28 uh experience of trying to use email as

27:31 the primary function of communication

27:34 and then adding phones just adding phone

27:37 calls actually got increases on email

27:40 responses

27:42 >> like maybe the quality of the emails

27:43 changed a little bit but really what's

27:45 happening is nobody's picking up the

27:46 phone but I'm leaving an actual

27:48 voicemail with an actual voice

27:51 >> and sending a supporting document in the

27:53 terms of an email

27:55 >> and the opportunity to either call back

27:56 if they're more comfortable on the phone

27:58 or to email back if they're more

27:59 comfortable on the email. And just that

28:01 fact, I wasn't getting any like I'm not

28:03 getting super high pickup rates or

28:06 anything like that, but just that little

28:07 extra element has changed the amount of

28:10 interaction I get on like my own emails.

28:13 >> Absolutely. Yeah. When we do our cadence

28:15 recommendations for clients is in their

28:17 sequences, right? We're that's part of

28:20 what we do is it's like it's not just

28:21 email after email, right? It's email,

28:23 it's LinkedIn, it's calls, it's, you

28:26 know, touch them in multiple ways and

28:28 let them know, hey, whatever you're most

28:30 comfortable with, I'm here for you,

28:31 right? Including texting, right? Because

28:33 some people just like to text, right?

28:36 Just faster, easier. They can be in a

28:38 meeting and still do that, right?

28:39 Because I tell people all the time, you

28:41 can't call me when I'm in a meeting. I'm

28:42 not going to pick up my phone. But I can

28:44 do I can shoot you a quick text, right?

28:46 So, um, yeah, it all works. And to your

28:49 point that that human voice, right, that

28:52 they actually hear you and you're not a

28:53 bot, you know, you're a human. You're

28:56 leaving a message. And for me, um,

29:00 [clears throat] it doesn't always work,

29:01 but I find, um, so I'm Catholic, so I,

29:04 you know, uh, Catholic guilt works

29:07 really well. It works on me. Um, and one

29:10 of my very best friends is, uh, is

29:12 Jewish, right? He's like, "Yeah, you

29:13 don't have the market cornered there. We

29:15 do it, too." Right? We use guilt all the

29:17 time. So,

29:18 >> and I'm so a little bit of guilt by, you

29:20 know, following up and being real

29:23 >> can work. And it's not it's not intended

29:26 in a in a negative way. It's just, hey,

29:28 I'm here to help you and just tell me

29:30 no. If if it's no, right, then I'll I'll

29:33 kindly go away. But I use a lot of

29:36 humor, too. Um, partially that's just my

29:38 personality. It's like, hey, listen,

29:40 man. Maybe it's my voice. I don't know.

29:44 U something. there's some reason you

29:46 don't want to talk to me. I do have a

29:48 really low voice and I get it may sound

29:50 weird. I don't know. But I just try to

29:52 inflct some little bit of humor in there

29:54 to make people go, "All right, maybe I

29:56 should call this person." Right? So, it

29:58 works. Little things like that. Whatever

30:00 your thing is, try it. It might work.

30:03 >> Yeah. It's authenticity. It's going to

30:05 get them to to like you or trust you

30:06 more. And

30:07 >> yeah,

30:08 >> somebody doesn't like you also, they

30:09 you'll find somebody else. There's you

30:11 don't have this small tiny amount of

30:13 people you can call.

30:14 That is exactly right. I'm a uh I'm a

30:17 big fan of, you know, it it takes so

30:20 many nos to get to a yes. It just does.

30:22 It's kind of basics in sales, right? Not

30:25 not everybody is going to say yes. It

30:28 just doesn't work that way. And so

30:30 you're going to get some nos and that's

30:31 okay, right? Sometimes it's not no, it's

30:33 just not now, right? And what's what's

30:36 the old saying? So So you're saying

30:38 there's a chance, right? [laughter]

30:40 Yeah.

30:41 >> And again, a little humor, it it goes a

30:44 long ways.

30:45 >> Yeah. Well, Joe, we're coming up on

30:47 time. I really appreciate it. But before

30:49 I let you go, I got to ask the question

30:50 I ask everybody, which is if somebody's

30:52 listening in, what is like the one

30:54 takeaway that somebody needs to make

30:56 sure that if they've heard all this,

30:57 here's the thing they gota they got to

30:59 take and apply to their business or

31:00 their sales approach or, you know, to to

31:03 what they're doing dayto-day or long

31:06 term.

31:06 >> Sure. Yeah. I um I say this a lot around

31:11 business in general, right? And it sales

31:16 it applies probably more than anywhere

31:18 else. I don't know, maybe operations.

31:20 Know your numbers, right? Just know your

31:22 numbers. Um you should have goals,

31:26 targets, right? KPIs, call them what you

31:28 want, metrics, but know your numbers and

31:31 stick to it, right? It prospecting, you

31:34 just have to do it. Am I going to say

31:36 that it is everybody's most, you know,

31:39 joyous and favorite part of their day?

31:42 No. It was never my favorite. Um, but I

31:46 did it because I knew I had to, right?

31:48 >> And so then I had to set up goals. And

31:50 so know your numbers. Um, so when I very

31:52 first started, my first district sales

31:55 manager

31:56 uh put a a post-it note on the dash in

32:00 the car. We went out and it was 10 and

32:01 two. We're going to make 10 calls and

32:03 we're going to do two demonstrations

32:04 today. Yeah,

32:06 >> that was it. He's like, "If you do this

32:07 every day,

32:09 >> you're going to kill it, right?" So,

32:10 know your numbers. Know what you need to

32:11 do and do it and and just get her done.

32:14 And quite frankly, have fun at it. If

32:17 you can't find a way to have fun at it,

32:19 well,

32:21 you you probably ought to rethink,

32:23 right? So, [laughter]

32:24 >> or maybe just suffer through until you

32:25 get that promotion.

32:27 >> Yeah, there's that. I think we've all

32:29 been there at least once. So, so but

32:31 yeah, know your numbers and just stick

32:33 to it, right? Um, if you do that, yeah,

32:35 then you can measure yourself and you

32:37 can gauge how you're doing. Like I'm a

32:39 sports person. I like a I like a

32:42 scoreboard because I know exactly where

32:44 we are, what the situation is. Same

32:46 thing. Know your numbers, keep track of

32:48 them, and you'll know right where you're

32:49 at.

32:50 >> Yeah. Simple, easy to keep track of,

32:52 easy to keep top of mind, and applicable

32:54 with everybody no matter what.

32:55 >> Yeah.

32:56 >> Yeah. Cool. Well, Joe, I appreciate you

32:58 coming on and sharing some wisdom with

32:59 us today.

33:00 >> Yeah, you bet. It was fun. Uh,

33:03 we should do it again sometime. Maybe

33:04 we'll take prospecting to the next

33:06 level.

33:07 >> That sounds perfect.

33:08 >> Thanks.

33:09 >> All right.