Dan Lubic on Referral Partners and Relationship-Based Prospecting

Transcript

0:02 We have another episode of Tailwind.

0:04 Today we're joined by Dan Lubik. Uh Dan,

0:06 tell us a little bit more about

0:07 yourself.

0:09 Uh hi Austin. Uh well, I'm a fractional

0:12 chief revenue officer uh and a member of

0:14 the sales acceleration network. Uh I

0:17 help small to midsize companies

0:20 uh scale their revenue. Um, typically

0:24 what will happen is a company that wants

0:27 to scale uh that is founder le will end

0:31 up hitting a wall from a revenue growth

0:33 standpoint. Uh, and uh, usually what

0:36 happens is um, if they want to continue

0:39 growing, they have to put the systems in

0:41 place that will allow them to break

0:43 through that wall. And that's what I

0:45 help uh, small and mid-size companies

0:46 do. uh and you know sometimes it might

0:49 be acting as a fractional CRO for them

0:52 or sometimes it might be helping them

0:54 just build out a sales infrastructure

0:57 uh and helping them put that in place.

1:00 >> Nice. And part of that growth is you

1:02 know how to get new business and you

1:04 were telling me a little bit about how

1:05 uh prospecting has changed since co do

1:08 you mind expanding a little bit on that?

1:10 >> Uh yeah I mean uh pri prior to co there

1:14 was a couple ways uh you could prospect.

1:16 you've always had the dialing for

1:18 dollars, the phone prospecting

1:20 >> that you could do. Uh and um the one

1:25 thing that's really changed since COVID

1:27 is the the dropbys, the dropins, the the

1:31 physical uh if you had a field sales

1:34 territory, for example, and you're out

1:37 meeting with clients and uh you see

1:40 there's a couple uh offices um that you

1:44 pass by that could be potential clients.

1:46 you drop in, introduce yourself, and uh

1:49 potentially see if you could turn those

1:51 folks into clients. That is much more

1:54 difficult today. Uh mainly because a lot

1:57 of people are no longer in the office on

2:00 a uh consistent basis.

2:02 >> Uh so the drop in part has really become

2:06 difficult. The phone call part has also

2:10 become difficult because of the fact

2:12 that you can no longer drop in. people

2:14 have been uh dependent on just uh

2:18 reaching out via email and uh telephone

2:20 calls. And uh many uh if not most um

2:27 prospects don't even answer their phone

2:29 anymore unless they recognize who the

2:31 phone call is coming from.

2:32 >> So uh doing the uh telephone outreach

2:35 has become significantly more um uh

2:40 difficult. Uh and then finally uh you

2:43 know the email reachout uh has also

2:48 gotten much more difficult. Uh you know

2:51 you used to be able to send emails out

2:53 and get into people's inboxes. Now with

2:55 a lot of the spam filters that are set

2:57 up uh and just like they screen their

3:00 phone calls, they screen their emails.

3:02 So uh a lot of your prospecting emails

3:05 never get to the person that you wanted

3:07 them to get to. So, uh, the the world of

3:10 cold calling has changed dramatically.

3:13 >> Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, as much as

3:17 I'm sure some people want to hear, then

3:18 now you just got to wait for inbound and

3:20 you don't have to do any sort of

3:22 proactive outreach, um, you know, what

3:24 should people be doing uh, now that

3:27 those three avenues have become less

3:29 effective? Yeah, I think the the trend

3:32 now if you if you want to grow

3:34 aggressively inbound is never going to

3:37 be enough. Uh you have to you have to

3:40 have outbound sales efforts. Uh so uh I

3:44 would say the most effective thing that

3:46 you can do right now is uh create warm

3:49 introductions into uh potential

3:52 opportunities. And uh how do you do

3:54 that? And uh that's basically by

3:57 building a strong network of uh

4:00 individuals that would interact with

4:03 your potential clients. And uh once

4:06 you're able to build out that network,

4:09 you can reach out to clients, see who

4:11 they're connected to, and if they're

4:13 connected to somebody in your network,

4:16 then you can ask that person for a warm

4:19 introduction into uh that opportunity.

4:21 And that that's probably the most

4:23 effective thing that you can do today.

4:25 >> Yeah. So if you're starting at square

4:27 one, let's say you haven't been focusing

4:29 on that, you were very reliant on email

4:31 and phone and you know maybe dropins. If

4:35 you were uh capable, how do you how do I

4:38 begin this process of transitioning to

4:41 having this approach?

4:43 >> Yeah. So I mean the first thing you have

4:44 to do is build your network. Uh so what

4:47 you need to do is you need to identify

4:49 who are the people that come in contact

4:53 with your ideal client. Uh and you know

4:57 uh for example I'm a fractional CRO. Uh

5:01 so uh I'm looking for small to midsize

5:04 companies that have between 5 million uh

5:08 and $50 million in revenue. That's

5:10 typically my sweet spot. So who are the

5:14 people that come in contact with my

5:16 ideal customer? Uh it's usually other

5:18 fractional sales leaders, fractional

5:20 CFOs,

5:21 >> fractional marketing uh CMOs, uh

5:25 fractional CTOs,

5:27 um business coaches happen to be uh very

5:31 good uh referral partners for me. Uh and

5:34 EOS implementers. These are all people

5:37 that are interacting with uh these types

5:41 of companies on a regular basis. So you

5:44 can go out and whether it's going out uh

5:46 on LinkedIn and doing very specific

5:49 searches for you know my case maybe I

5:52 would search for a fractional uh CFO and

5:56 and try to get those folks into my

5:58 network. uh or if it's going out to uh

6:02 regular networking groups where uh these

6:05 people tend to uh network at is another

6:08 great way to to do it. So the first

6:10 thing to do is to build the network.

6:14 Okay. So your next question might be

6:16 well how do you do that? uh you know if

6:18 everybody's always reaching out to

6:20 everybody because they want something uh

6:22 in return uh you know to you know I'm

6:26 the only reason I want to meet with you

6:27 is because I I'm hoping that you refer

6:29 me business that's not an effective

6:31 message uh so the most effective way uh

6:35 to approach this is to approach it from

6:38 the standpoint of uh giving try to give

6:42 more than you receive. So, in many of

6:46 these uh uh opportunities uh to to meet

6:50 these folks, you want to let them know

6:52 that you're looking for opportunities

6:53 for them as well. Uh so, uh you know,

6:57 your message might be that I often like

7:00 when you're trying to connect with

7:01 somebody, you know, say it's through

7:03 LinkedIn, uh I often work with uh uh

7:07 clients that need that, uh need your

7:10 services or services that you tend to

7:13 offer. I'm trying to build a network of

7:16 X to to be able to f fulfill those

7:20 uh uh be able to fulfill that. So, um

7:23 from there, you take it into uh being

7:26 able to set up a uh call or a meeting

7:29 where you can learn about their

7:31 offerings and and and it's you really

7:34 want to do this. You want to learn about

7:35 their offerings and you do want to look

7:37 for opportunities for them and that's

7:39 the most effective way. It's to go out

7:41 and try to, you know, offer value to

7:45 your referral partners. And sometimes it

7:47 may not be other clients. Sometimes it

7:50 may be the skill that you're uh uh that

7:54 you offer to your clients that maybe you

7:56 can offer to them for free. Uh so for

7:58 example me as a fractional CRO a lot of

8:02 the times what I'll offer is helping

8:05 them build a business plan a sales

8:07 outreach plan uh help them uh understand

8:11 how to network properly uh and give them

8:14 all the cadences that's that's involved

8:16 in that. Uh so I'm offering something of

8:20 value to them and that's how you

8:22 cultivate the relationship. So, uh

8:24 that's actually a very effective way to

8:26 get somebody to understand what you do.

8:29 So, uh when they are in front of their

8:32 client, number one, they'll e they'll

8:34 easily identify the opportunity where

8:37 you can come in. Uh and then number two,

8:40 because you've helped them uh and you're

8:43 the person they think of as the sales

8:45 leader, you're going to be the first

8:46 person uh that they uh refer in in a

8:50 particular situation like that. So, and

8:52 you know, I'm just using my particular

8:54 area as an example, but it could be

8:56 across any field. If you're an attorney,

8:58 uh if you're a um uh operational

9:03 company, IT company, whatever it is, uh

9:05 it's the same concept. You just have to

9:07 identify those uh individuals.

9:10 >> Yeah.

9:12 So, it it sounds like um it's similar to

9:16 cold outreach in that you're reaching

9:17 out to somebody who you may not

9:18 necessarily know in this part of the

9:20 networking opportunity.

9:22 >> Yep.

9:22 >> Do you mind doing like a good strong

9:24 like compare contrast on like how you

9:27 might approach cold directly to a client

9:30 versus cold or a prospect versus cold

9:32 directly to a somebody you want to

9:34 network with?

9:35 Uh yeah, I mean in both instances

9:41 if you're reaching out to a client uh

9:45 like I said trying to get to their email

9:47 is very very difficult uh days. You may

9:50 not even get ever be able to do that. So

9:54 most people are using LinkedIn to try to

9:56 get to the clients today. Uh because

9:59 that uh is a vehicle that a lot of

10:02 people still will check their own emails

10:05 and you know don't have uh a lot of the

10:07 the filter set up to block it out. Uh

10:11 and most people get I get inundated with

10:13 sales emails in my LinkedIn and when

10:16 they come in I just look at the at the

10:18 top top of the thing and it's how they

10:20 approach me. If they approach me with

10:22 selling something, delete, delete,

10:23 delete, delete, delete, delete, delete.

10:25 I don't even waste time going through

10:26 it. I'm looking for the people that are

10:28 offering some type of service uh to me

10:33 that they're not selling. Uh, and those

10:35 are the people that then I'll read and

10:37 I'll look and then I'll see if there's

10:39 an alignment that we can share and then

10:42 uh we could potentially uh work

10:44 together. So that's how I would approach

10:46 a client is how can you help them uh

10:49 without trying to sell something first.

10:52 Okay. Yeah.

10:53 >> Uh and it's the same with a referral

10:55 partner. How can you help a potential

10:57 referral partner? How can you add value

11:00 uh to them taking time out of their day

11:04 to spend with you? What's in it for

11:06 them? You always got to be thinking of

11:08 that. Everybody's time is valuable. what

11:11 do you have to offer uh for for them to

11:14 give up their time for you?

11:16 >> So, if it sounds like make it obvious

11:18 real quick that you're looking to

11:19 network, you're looking to refer with

11:21 them. Don't hide it. Don't bury the

11:23 plot. Don't tell them, "Hey, I noticed

11:25 you do this." Just be like, "Hey, I'm

11:27 here to network with you." Like, let's

11:29 find each other, you know, referrals and

11:30 all that kind of stuff.

11:32 >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, probably not as uh

11:36 direct as that. You want to let

11:38 >> Not too blunt.

11:39 >> Yeah. You want to let them know that uh

11:43 you uh can help them.

11:46 >> Okay. Uh I can help you and I can help

11:49 you potentially refer clients. That's

11:52 why you know the message the the initial

11:55 message might be my clients often need

11:58 services that you offer. That right

12:00 there is okay. This person wants to help

12:02 me. Okay. or uh if uh you want to uh

12:09 offer something to uh a potential

12:12 referral partner for free. You know, I

12:14 work with a lot of in my case

12:16 fractionals and I notice that they have

12:18 issues developing uh their um their

12:23 business. Uh I would like to offer you a

12:26 a free thing. Don't worry, I'm not

12:28 trying to sell you anything. I don't

12:30 typically don't even sell. what I'm

12:32 trying to do is build a referral partner

12:33 network and you know so some something

12:36 like that would be a much better

12:37 approach because they got tons of people

12:40 trying to network with them as well. So

12:42 at the end of the day how do you

12:45 separate yourself from everybody that's

12:47 doing just what you just said? Hey, I'm

12:49 trying to build a referral partner

12:50 network

12:51 >> versus hey uh I can help you and um you

12:56 know and that's how you build out your

12:58 referral partner network. So you reach

13:00 out with the well- constructed message

13:02 that is unusual or is different than

13:04 everyone else's and then you get them to

13:06 al show some interest. Are you going for

13:09 a quick 15 minute 30 minute

13:10 conversation? What do you want to do

13:12 with that conversation? what's the end

13:14 goal of, you know, what does

13:17 >> So So I I typically like to uh get to a

13:20 30 minute

13:22 uh initial call, make sure there's

13:24 alignment, and then make sure we

13:26 actually can help each other

13:28 >> uh on that call. uh really learn about,

13:31 you know, who their uh clients are, uh

13:35 how I can identify them, what problems

13:37 that they solve, uh and how it's best

13:40 for me to introduce them to the clients

13:43 when I identify them. Um and then I'm

13:47 looking on that call after I, you know,

13:51 I always start the call by, you know,

13:53 trying to learn about them. Uh, but

13:55 there should be a natural pivot where

13:57 they say, "Well, how can I help you?"

13:59 >> And if they if that natural pivot never

14:03 comes, I know at that point that's not

14:05 probably going to be a good potential

14:06 referral partner. Yeah.

14:08 >> Uh, if it does come, then we talk about

14:10 that and then uh we just learn more

14:13 about each other's solutions and how we

14:15 can help each other.

14:17 >> And you mentioned trying to lead with

14:18 value. you know, how much um how much

14:21 onus do you put on yourself as the

14:23 person trying to build that networking

14:25 connection to be like, "Hey, I'm going

14:26 to come in with like five ideas of who

14:28 to introduce them to." versus

14:31 I've talked to some folks that say it's

14:32 on it's on the individual to ask the

14:35 other individual, but then be helpful

14:38 because they're going to it's on them to

14:40 be like responsible for identifying the

14:42 folks, not yourself. Does that phrase

14:44 that right? Okay.

14:45 >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I go to every one

14:48 of those meetings prepared to offer some

14:50 sort of value, whether it's a uh another

14:53 introduction

14:54 >> to another potential referral partner.

14:57 Um, if I happen to have a client uh that

15:01 could use their services at that time

15:03 and then I feel from the the the meeting

15:06 that this person can solve the uh issues

15:09 that my client's trying to solve, then

15:12 do that. uh or it just might be some

15:15 type of value guidance in helping them

15:17 grow their business. You know, um I'm an

15:20 expert in uh sales development, so

15:24 everybody needs sales development. So, I

15:27 can always uh uh have something to offer

15:29 at that standpoint.

15:31 >> Okay. So, as long as you you're you come

15:33 prepared with some sort of value, you're

15:36 doing that step correctly.

15:38 >> So, once you've established that, you

15:40 know, what's the cadence look like?

15:42 What's the uh what's the next steps look

15:44 like beyond you know all right we like

15:47 each other we both given each other

15:49 value now let's get some more value out

15:51 of it how do I how do I

15:53 >> yeah so so what what I typically do is

15:56 like to set up a uh cadence of getting

16:00 together usually in the beginning uh in

16:03 a 30-minute call you're not going to

16:05 really be able to fully understand what

16:07 somebody does uh so what I like to do is

16:11 have the initial 30-minute call. We

16:13 determine that uh we both are playing in

16:16 the same circles and we can help each

16:18 other. Uh I like to do two calls after

16:21 that. One call is a one-hour call where

16:24 my referral partner gives me a deep dive

16:26 on everything that they do. So I can uh

16:29 keep them top of mind for whatever their

16:32 solution is. Uh and then the following

16:35 meeting uh I do uh my deep dive so uh I

16:40 can be top of mind for them and they

16:42 really understand my solutions and then

16:44 from that it typically becomes a monthly

16:47 or a quarterly uh check-in meeting and

16:50 you know some sometimes you're you're

16:52 seeing these people networking events uh

16:54 around town like I was just at a

16:56 networking event this morning uh ran

16:58 into a lot of people uh that I network

17:01 with there. So you're uh uh you know

17:04 trying to just keep uh regular um uh

17:08 communication going so you do remember

17:11 each other because you're going to have

17:13 a lot of these meetings going on and

17:16 it's kind of hard to keep track of

17:18 everybody if you're not staying

17:19 connected with

17:21 >> Do you have any guidance on you know who

17:24 exactly you decide to refer like network

17:26 with? like are there too many fractional

17:29 CMOs to have within your network because

17:31 then you can't really spread the love

17:33 necessarily if you have 30 different

17:36 fractionals that you're trying to pass

17:38 along information with.

17:39 >> Yeah,

17:41 >> yeah, I would say there's never too many

17:46 uh because there's always somebody that

17:49 specializes in some niche. So there, but

17:53 there might be a point where there's

17:56 enough.

17:57 >> So yeah,

17:58 >> but so when you get on a a referral

18:00 partner call, for example, where

18:01 somebody says to you that I offer to

18:04 introduce them to somebody and they say,

18:07 "Hey, I have a a network of folks I can

18:10 introduce you to. I have a network of

18:12 CMOs, CFOs, and CTOs. Uh could would you

18:16 like some introduction to any of them?"

18:18 I might say, "Well, right now I'm pretty

18:21 pretty well set on my CMOs, uh, but I do

18:24 need some more CFOs or CTO's, so I'd

18:27 appreciate an introduction to one of

18:29 those." So, I would never say there's

18:32 too much, but there is enough, if you

18:34 will.

18:35 >> That makes sense. Um, what about uh like

18:39 you know for me when I hear fractional

18:41 CRO, fractional CMO, it's like that's a

18:43 real direct line. But are there any

18:45 instances where you actually recommend

18:47 or say hey be open to maybe a less

18:50 direct line like um cyber security or

18:55 you know I'm trying to think of people

18:57 who are a little bit more unusual where

18:58 it's not as obvious as it things where

19:01 you might find yourself going down a

19:02 rabbit hole. be a little bit more

19:04 cautious with those ones. Like how do

19:06 you how would you say draw the line on

19:08 who to talk?

19:09 >> Yeah, I mean that that just really

19:11 depends on, you know, how how how deep

19:14 you want to go and how much bandwidth

19:16 you have. Uh because building this

19:18 network takes time and uh so every 30

19:22 minutes you're spending with somebody

19:24 that's not going to ever be able to

19:27 refer you to a client or refer you to

19:30 another valuable um refer potential

19:33 referral partner. You've basically

19:36 wasted your time. So uh you yeah you

19:39 really got to kind of dig in and figure

19:42 out we call it the circle of influence.

19:44 who in that circle of influence that is

19:49 u um connected potentially to your ideal

19:54 client profiles ultimately what you want

19:56 to get at. Yeah, I think you touched on

19:58 this uh briefly, but just if I'm in a

20:01 conversation with somebody and we have

20:04 that first half hour and I'm I'm

20:06 thinking that in my head and maybe this

20:08 is the wrong way to think about it, I

20:10 might be talking to a prospect and that

20:12 and use that to actually maybe

20:13 disqualify them and say, "Hey, this

20:15 isn't a good fit." Would you say is the

20:17 same something similar and how would you

20:18 go about navigating that if it is a

20:21 similar situation? Yeah, it is a similar

20:24 situation and uh you know essentially uh

20:28 what you do is you you don't set up the

20:31 follow-up calls and and you can do it

20:35 either way. you can be direct say, hey,

20:36 look, it was really nice meeting with

20:37 you, but I don't think that uh I'm going

20:40 to be able to I'm going to come in

20:42 contact with potential clients of yours.

20:45 So, you know, appreciate your time, but

20:48 you know, I I don't see how I could

20:50 really be of service to you. Uh or, you

20:53 know, if you're one of the people that

20:55 don't like confrontation, you could just

20:58 say, uh, you know, thank them for their

21:00 time and just

21:02 >> move on. Yeah, I think that's a hard

21:05 thing for uh for people to do is to

21:07 disqualify or to just say, "Hey, not

21:10 quite the fit, but you know, but this is

21:12 another situation where you got to be

21:13 able to do that just like you could with

21:15 a prospect."

21:16 >> Yeah.

21:16 >> Yeah.

21:17 >> So, what are we talking about? Oh,

21:19 sorry.

21:19 >> Yeah. Well, not to interrupt you. And I

21:21 will tell you, you first start building

21:23 your network, you're going to take the

21:26 calls with everybody and anybody, and

21:27 you're going to keep them all going. But

21:29 what happens is as you get busier,

21:32 you're and you start to realize and uh

21:37 develop your uh network, you're going to

21:40 start to realize where the most valuable

21:42 connections are coming from and you'll

21:44 naturally or you should naturally just

21:47 kind of move into that direction and

21:49 build more of that market out.

21:50 >> So at the beginning, you suggesting be a

21:53 little bit more open, be a little more

21:54 creative. You have

21:55 >> Exactly. In the beginning. Yeah. In the

21:57 beginning. Yeah, you don't know what you

22:00 don't know. And uh so just go out and

22:04 network with everybody. Uh and then as

22:07 you get better at it, that's when you

22:08 want to become more focused on the folks

22:11 that can add the

22:12 >> It's not your ideal client profile. It's

22:14 your ideal partner profile. And you got

22:16 to build the data to figure out who it

22:17 is and to be able to really figure out

22:19 the the for it, right?

22:21 >> Very same approach. Yes.

22:22 >> Yeah. All right. So, we talked a little

22:24 bit about uh the schedule or I wanted to

22:26 keep you on schedule. So before I let

22:29 you go, I want to ask the last question

22:30 I ask everybody, which is if somebody's

22:32 listening in, they got one takeaway that

22:34 they're going to take away from this and

22:36 apply to their business. Uh what would

22:38 that be?

22:40 >> Uh look to serve before you look for a

22:43 return.

22:44 >> That would be the one thing I would say.

22:46 If you do that, you take that approach

22:48 in every facet of your business, your

22:51 good things tend to happen.

22:53 >> Nice. It's great advice. Appreciate you,

22:55 Dan. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

22:57 Right. Appreciate it.