Dan Cubr on Customer Journey, Discovery, and Better Outbound Calls

Transcript

0:03 All right, we've got another episode of Tailwind. We're joined today by Dan Chuber, who is a Sandler sales trainer with the EM Consulting Group. Uh,

0:11 anything else I should have mentioned in uh that intro, Dan?

0:15 No. Austin, you got it all. It's all they need to know.

0:17 Right. Keep it simple, straight to the point, right? Exactly.

0:20 Yeah. Um, cool. Cool. So, yeah, we're kind of talking a little bit before we started recording and I mentioned uh how we're kind of thinking more about the

0:28 customer journey during the outbound process. Um, and was hoping to pick your brain and see if we could learn a couple

0:35 things uh selfishly for myself and then also, you know, for anyone listening.

0:38 Um, so out of curiosity, uh, to kind of set the stage cuz you guys inspired this, like how do you use that, uh,

0:46 customer journey and like, you know, maybe baby steps instead of big leaps to start building credibility with your sales motion?

0:55 Yeah, I I think it's um, you know, you want to try to meet your prospect where they're at, right? Right. And everyone's on a little bit of a different journey.

1:02 Uh depending on how sophisticated the company is, how big, how much bureaucracy, or if they're a solo, you

1:10 know, entrepreneur or an individual. You got to meet them where they're at. And so I think it's about asking the questions to really try to help figure out where they're at on that journey.

1:17 And then if we can be a resource, what does that look like? Um, you know, that can be different things to uh to different

1:26 people in different organizations, but I think that's such an important part of of that discovery process is to figure out, hey, can we be a resource? And if so, you know, what can that look like in

1:34 their world? How can we be their their wingman, so to speak.

1:38 It's funny that you say like meet them where they're at because when I was talking to Tim, he mentioned the same thing, but he was talking about the medium

1:45 of like some people are going to be more interested in like emails than phone calls or more interested in networking events, but then take even a step further like you did and just say like,

1:54 well, you got to think about where they're at like emotionally and contextually on where they want to be met. So, it's more than just did you make a good phone call, it's also

2:02 meeting them where they are psychologically to some degree.

2:06 Correct. Because some people might be thinking like, "Oh my god, I'm struggling with this and I can really use help." Or they might be of the mindset that, you know, I'm in a good

2:14 spot. Like, that's cool that you do coaching and training. Um, that's for someone else that might not be for me.

2:21 Um, so it's really important to find out where they're at and like are they open to having a conversation about how we can be of help and maybe how we can help

2:29 them elevate their business. Um, sometimes, you know, the whole thing is to get to the truth, right? And sometimes it's a no. uh it's not the

2:36 right time and that's okay. Uh other times it might be yeah tell me more.

2:40 Let's discuss further or hey you know I'm really struggling with this. It's oh you know serendipitous that we're talking right now. This is great that you know we're having this conversation

2:47 because I really could maybe potentially use someone like you in my life.

2:50 Yeah it was always great if somebody had just been googling sales training or was just like sitting in the pain of that and you call them at the perfect time.

3:00 Um but then there's everyone else who's still IP and probably still could use it. How do you navigate when it's not super super obvious like that they need?

3:10 Well, I mean, I joke and you know, I jokingly say this, but I think there's a truth to it is that, you know, I sell an intangible service that people never

3:18 think they need. You know, no one ever wakes up in the morning and says, I think I'm going to look for some sales training today. Doesn't happen. Um, you

3:25 know, and so oftentimes people are confused about what we do. You know, what are you are you a life coach? No, I'm not a life coach. Oh, you must do

3:33 SEO and search engine optimization. No, I don't do that either. And so oftentimes it's very hard to distinguish because, you know, it is kind of that niche thing. People aren't really maybe

3:41 understanding what a sales coach is. And so you think about sales coaching, leadership development, customer service training, some of the, you know, the

3:48 pillars of of service that we offer. Um, it's helping them really understand how it can be applicable. So for me, it's

3:55 asking some questions about their world and then I can say, well, here's how we've helped maybe similar companies to yours or similar industries or maybe an

4:04 entrepreneur who was on that, you know, similar stage of of a journey that you're on. Here's where we were able to help out. So kind of giving them a third

4:10 party story uh to help them understand and make that correlation to where they could say, "Oh, wow. Yeah, this makes sense. Maybe we should talk or nope,

4:19 don't think that's the right thing I'm looking for." So that's that's kind of how I look at it.

4:24 Yeah. Kind of like um find like identifying the pain even though they may not understand the solution that needs to go with it essentially.

4:32 Correct. Right. You got to understand if there's pain, you know, pain's an emotional compelling reason to make a change. And um if they don't have real pain,

4:40 okay, then you know, again, we might not be the right fit. Um, but if there is some some real contextual pain, then we can dive a little bit deeper there and I

4:49 can understand, you know, what their pains are, what their challenges are, and that can open the door for a, you know, hopefully a healthy conversation

4:58 to maybe understand and position how we could help them um, even alleviate some of that pain.

5:05 Yeah. So, you really never have anyone that's like, "Oh, I I woke up and know that pain.

5:13 Not typically. I think uh in the years I've been doing this, maybe once, but very few in and far between. And and and that's where I think it's important

5:21 because when people think of sales, unfortunately, um you know, a lot of negative nasty connotations, right? They're thinking of

5:29 the old school pushy press hard three copies used car, you know, stigma. And um you know, I'm a big believer you

5:37 can't sell anything. You know, you can't convince anyone that they want something. You've got to lead them down this path of of guided discovery and help them understand that they need it

5:46 or want it for themselves. Um, you know, that's where the magic happens and helping them understand that maybe they do have a challenge or pain that they've

5:54 just been living with that they're maybe tired of of living with and they do want to make a change and they want to have a concerted effort. Right? You could like the person I'll use the analogy of the

6:02 person that hey I want to get in better shape or I want to lose weight and they've continued to try to do it on their own and they've never been able to whatever stick out stick to a workout

6:11 regimen or stick to you know a healthier diet and things of that nature and they finally say okay I'm sick of going alone

6:18 let me hire a personal trainer or let me hire a fitness coach or something and they've got someone who can hold them accountable and maybe show them new ways to do things and ways to work out and

6:27 ways to eat and and all these things and all of a sudden and they start to see the results they want. Um, and so I kind of liken to that sometimes we can be

6:35 that resource that people don't think they need. Um, until maybe they realize that, you know, I can't figure this out on my own. And and that's okay. It doesn't make me make you a failure. It doesn't make you weak.

6:46 Um, you know, the best performers in the world in business and sports, they've got coaches, they've got trainers, they've got people that assist them and

6:53 help them, hold them accountable. And so, you know, that's kind of like what we can try to do for them. And so that's where that often, you know, evolves.

7:02 I I had a failed startup and we failed because we couldn't sell. So I went and got a job at a sales consulting company

7:10 and I was like beyond pure proactive and being like there's something I'm completely missing here and I got to go figure something out.

7:18 Um, and the big thing that was missing from that consulting company was outbound stuff. So for me like just working with you guys on like you know

7:26 the no pressure prospecting has been game changer. I'm still getting comfortable but I mean I was never going

7:33 to figure that out on my own. It was just like I just knew that that wasn't going to happen. Um, and like so to your point on like the coaching and

7:40 everything like couple of the big takeaways for me through like the training at this point is like um like the mindset stuff, the behavior, just

7:49 holding yourself accountable, reconfiguring how I'm thinking about that stuff in my brain when I'm reaching out to somebody on a cold call, like

7:56 just reconfiguring my perception on how I'm meeting that person in their world.

8:01 and like little quick pattern interrupts, asking for time, you know, doing upfront contracts, like that was stuff that I was never gonna figure out, but having a coach definitely did that.

8:12 And so, it's funny to think that like I don't know, I guess maybe I just got lucky in identifying that our startup

8:19 original one didn't work because we couldn't sell. And so, we're like, all right, that we got lucky in the analysis. Maybe we just stumbled over it or something.

8:28 Um, but yeah, it's cool. Well, I think kudos to you. I mean, for doing the post-mortem and saying, "Hey, where did we go, you know, go wrong and where did

8:36 we maybe misstep?" Because oftent times the bravado, the ego that, you know, gets in the way of like, oh, it wasn't our fault. Hey, you know, the the clients weren't ready for us. You know,

8:44 we did everything right. No, you guys were humble enough to be like, okay, we we couldn't figure out that sales piece.

8:49 And then you said, okay, I'm gonna do something proactive and let me go get a job in sales consulting. Let me get better at this weakness of mine. Because a lot of people don't want to admit

8:57 their weaknesses. So kudos to you guys for, you know, being willing to do that.

9:01 Um, so that you, you know, if you do another startup, you're not going to have the, you know, same result. So that's awesome.

9:07 Yeah. When you go broke, you can really get humble pretty pretty good. But the mot that's a motivator, right?

9:15 Yeah. It really makes you look in the mirror and made all I don't want to do that again. So how do we how do we navigate it and make sure it doesn't happen? Um, so then when we talk about

9:24 like meeting people where they're at and being like contextually there, like what are some of the activities you do that like obviously like you're having a

9:32 conversation to start understanding where they're at? Um, do you like custom make what you're going to do for your plan for the next steps or do you kind

9:40 of have like rough heruristics like generally I find that like solo entrepreneurs here are like the three things that help them, you know, build

9:49 the trust and like take them down the line. Like how does that look in in your world when you're doing it? It it varies a little bit, right?

9:55 Because you got to read the room. You got to understand, I mean, you have a kind of a framework of of what you think that maybe conversation is going to go to, but you can't fall in the trap of

10:03 assuming you know what it's going to happen because everyone's situation is different. And so, I think it's, you know, maybe having an idea, but then asking the right questions, asking tough

10:12 questions, and really listening to what's going on in that person's world or in that company's world, and then, you know, seeing how you can make

10:20 a recommendation of of how you might be able to help. um you know that's where I think a lot of sales people um maybe you

10:29 know fall is that they want to figure out the solution very quickly and oh I've heard this before I've seen this

10:37 before this is how we fix it and um again you might have some preconceived notion you know notions in your mind and

10:44 that's okay but you can't fall into that trap right you really have to go in there with an open mind and ask some tough questions and really listen and

10:54 then probably ask them more questions and go a couple layers deeper to truly understand what's going on because that's the only way you're going to ever be able to determine if you can make a

11:01 real impact to to help that person that's sitting in front of you.

11:04 So like for somebody newer that gets into those conversations and you know is still learning to not fall into the trap

11:12 like what's practical advice on like things that you can do as an individual to stop yourself from falling into the trap? Yeah, I think you know I

11:20 like to go into every every like meeting like that with a you know a pre-all plan, right? I am I am writing down I'm an old school guy. I love to write

11:28 things down on pen and paper. Uh you could use computer if you're doing that but you know write down a list of questions that I want to ask and make sure I cover because as you get through

11:36 the conversation and that conversation can meander and go in different things and you might miss a pertinent question you wanted to ask because you're just

11:44 lost in the moment. So, um, having a list of questions that you want to ask, maybe thinking about what are some questions they might ask you so that you

11:52 can be ready to answer those and so you're not in that, you know, deer in headlights, uh, caught in the moment type thing. Uh, because at the end of the day, you just want to have a really

12:00 a productive, honest, transparent conversation. In order to do that, I don't think you can wing it, right? got to do some some pre-work and give

12:09 yourself um some guard rails or some guideposts and then as you get into that conversation again, you know, take it

12:16 where it needs to go, but also making sure that you're staying within your framework that you've established for yourself.

12:21 Yeah. I mean, like as a rough rule of thumb, could it be something like write out your questions and before you start

12:28 doing any like diagnostic like diagnosis or like recommendations or like hey, here's how we could potentially help.

12:34 guarantee you've gotten through all your questions so that you can then speak from a more more full perspective.

12:41 Yeah, I think you know and and you mentioned you know the term upfront contract which is a uh you know part of the you know something a concept that we teach in the Sandler world but you know

12:48 kind of setting the stage when you start that conversation like hey here's what we're here to talk about uh I want to understand you know from you Mr. or Mrs.

12:55 prospect, what's on your mind? What are things that you want to cover today? Uh here's, you know, from my point of view, here's some things I want to maybe ask you some questions or some things I want

13:03 to dive into. And then at the end of this conversation, we'll have a better understanding if if it's worthy of a further conversation and diving deeper

13:11 or we might quickly establish that there's probably not a good fit here. And either one of those answers is okay.

13:16 But just setting the stage to where hopefully it's a relaxed conversation and again understanding that you know

13:23 what does each side want to take out of this so that both sides are getting their their needs met during that call or that conversation if that makes sense.

13:31 Yeah. Yeah. So like just being able to focus on you know what your controllable behavior is like so beforehand being prepared is going to reduce the likelihood that you fall into a trap.

13:41 Just the more you do prepare and the more you get the reps in the better you'll get at that.

13:46 Yeah. I mean, every with anything, repetition is is huge. I mean, you know, when you're doing something newer that you're not used to doing, yeah, you're

13:53 going to fall on your face, right? And there's the old saying, you know, um you know, don't practice until you get it right. You know, practice till you can't

14:01 get it wrong. And so, making sure that you're doing those reps, understand that, you know, you're going to mess up at times. We're all going to. It doesn't

14:09 matter, you know, how long you've been doing something. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to have missteps.

14:12 You're going to screw up. But the goal is to limit those, right? And just have a good plan and and have consistency because if you have consistency in that,

14:21 you have a better chance for more consistent outcomes. Whereas people who are going to go in and kind of wing it during a conversation, um, who knows where it's going to go and

14:29 times you might get lucky and you might have a fruitful conversation and and get a client or, you know, a deal out of it, but I'd say probably more often times than not if you're just winging it,

14:37 you're going to have the roller coaster of of results. And so that's why it's important to um you know really think about and prepare in advance and then

14:45 you know try to be um you know disciplined to ask questions and really listen during that conversation versus wanting to just talk about solutions and

14:55 talk about how you can solve things because again you probably are way far away from understanding what really needs to be done to really help that person or that company.

15:03 Yeah. Yeah. So you you talked about the very structured pre-call planner approach. Do you have like a structured post-mortem after a meeting that you go through?

15:12 Postmortem is if it if it didn't work or just a post like regardless of if it's a you know want to continue the conversation or we don't want to continue.

15:21 Yeah. I mean just in a situation where like you know if you do something where like you get done with the meeting and then do you spend like five minutes just being like okay what did I do well what

15:30 I didn't or like you know do you certain situation?

15:32 Yeah. Yeah. I want to understand I want to take a look and and kind of do yeah kind of a recap and a postmortem and figure out like where did I hit the points I wanted to hit. You know if I go

15:40 in with kind of some intentions of making sure that hey I get these questions answered or I want to understand this. You know did I accomplish those things or did I fall

15:48 short? Did I forget to ask these questions that I wrote down? Um or did I walk away from that conversation and maybe we have another meeting set up but

15:55 I'm still unsure of what this person's challenges or pain. So yeah, I think it's important to kind of look at that

16:02 because if there is going to be another meeting and I still maybe don't know information I need, then I got to make

16:10 sure I'm getting some of those questions or get that clarity, you know, in that next call. But if let's say, you know, we've established that it's just not a

16:17 good fit, do that postmortem, where where did it go wrong, right? What did I maybe do or not do? Uh maybe it was just

16:25 not a good fit and that's okay. But maybe there was a fit and you know I I bobbled it and I fumbled the ball at the at the five yard line. Who knows? But uh

16:33 I think it's important to take an honest look and give yourself honest you know feedback on what you could have done differently or better.

16:39 So like even as simple as just saying like all right I have my pre-call planner. I went through the conversation. Let me just go look at the pre-all planner and see how much I stuck

16:47 to plan would be like a good Yeah, that'd be a great starting point, right? Like see did you hit the things that you wanted. Maybe there's some, you know, hey, I had three questions I

16:55 wanted to make sure I asked them. Did you ask all three and did you feel like you got the answers you wanted? Because sometimes you ask a question and maybe you're not getting the answer you want.

17:04 Maybe that's happening here with you and me. You never know, right? And now I'm getting all the answers.

17:09 That that happens, right? And sometimes you can be polite and say, "Well, I don't want to ask. I don't want to pry." Or you can say, "Okay, I'm sure I'm I'm

17:16 I'm not sure I'm following and I need some more clarity. you maybe have to ask that question in a different way or you got to, you know, ask an ancillary question. So, I think it's important to

17:23 do that and then like, yeah, do a little like checklist. Hey, I wanted to ask three questions and get the clarity on this. Boom, I got those three pieces. I feel good about that. Or, hey, I had

17:32 these three questions. I only got one of them answered. I only asked two of them and one they didn't really answer. They pivoted. The other one I needed to get

17:39 to. Okay. Well, you know, did you really accomplish what you set out to do? Maybe not. Okay. Well, if that's important to

17:47 you, then how do we set yourself up to have more success the next time you have a conversation and making sure you're getting the information that you want?

17:55 Yeah. So, when you're going into it on like a a cold call, I guess you'd still be wanting to have your pre-all plan for that cold call, too, right? It's going

18:03 to be less direct because you're not gonna, you know, if you're having a, you know, a second or third conversation with somebody, you've been learning,

18:11 you've been learning, you can be very precise.

18:14 But when you're going in and you get past that 30 second commercial and now all of a sudden it's like, okay, I know the things I want to try to hit

18:21 generally speaking, but it's going to be super broad.

18:25 And then you just like be able to like narrow that down. So, do you like uh how do you handle like the variety of

18:33 directions during a call that you could potentially go? Like are you just like here are like kind of the three funnels that we might go down as we're talking about this conversation or is it I just

18:41 always try to get these three data points because it will steer me at some point.

18:46 Yeah. If you're talking about a cold call specifically, I mean, you're reaching out, they're not expecting you.

18:50 Um, you know, you want to make sure that you're doing like a pattern interrupt like you'd mentioned earlier, right?

18:59 You're trying to shock their system so that hopefully they'll give you 30 seconds to explain why you're calling and give a little piece of value as to

19:06 why it might make sense for them to to speak with you. And from that, you're going to either hear like, "Nope, we're all good. No thanks."

19:14 maybe mean some more colorful verbiage associated with that, but you know, maybe they'll be nice. Um, or they might

19:21 be saying, "Yeah, that's kind of a problem, but maybe it's not the most pressing problem that we have." Or the third one might be like, "Yeah, that that's interesting that you called about

19:30 that because we're really experiencing that." So, those are typically the kind of the three paths it could it can go down. Um, and you have to be okay with

19:37 either, right? if they hang up and say no thanks or hey you know not now try me again in six months or yeah let's talk but I

19:46 think the goal of that cold call is and I think this is where sometimes people make the mistake they're trying to get too much out of that right what you're trying to do is is reach out and say hey

19:54 here's who I help here are the type of problems I solve or any of these relevant in your world and if they are okay great let's maybe find some

20:02 additional time I know I've caught you out of the blue here let's find some time over the next week or two we can sit down and talk a little further and and see if I can be a resource and I

20:10 want to understand your your your situation a little bit more. Um, that really should be the goal of that cold call. Um, to either figure out, you know, is there interest in talking

20:18 further? Is there some relevancy? Um, if there is, cool, let's find some time. If there isn't, it's not a relevant problem or there no interest, okay, boom, now I

20:26 know that, you know, that they're not a fit right now. And that's okay, too.

20:29 Yeah. Yeah. I guess you know what I'm working on on my end is that we had just like a you know we have a software

20:36 solution that we were trying to sell but now we've been kind of doing postmortems and looking at what's happening and you know part of our discovery process has

20:44 been providing a ton of value uh of helping people really unover what their prospecting looks like what the landscape is what are some creative ways

20:50 to identify individuals um and then you you get far far enough along and all of a sudden we've just done a ton of free consulting which is not a great business

20:59 strategy Um, so we're like, well, you know, if people really are interested in this part of it, why don't we also offer that as a service to say, look, we can do like a

21:08 deep analysis and provide a report back, which might say you don't need something that helps with cold calling. You just need to go to these networking events

21:16 and that'll crush it and here's your plan.

21:19 So, as you know, having like a cold call outreach when I'm all right, I'm going to hit you my 30 second commercial. I'll talk about how we help with, you know, improving prospecting, so on and so

21:27 forth. Um, like would you advise like how would you approach like structuring it because like my brain's going to just

21:35 try to get to like a 15-minute conversation schedule that's not a cold call and then kind of do it in like a linear fashion of I'm just going to hit

21:43 the questions around how much how well do they understand their ICP, where to meet them, you know, how to, you know, actual like actualize it, put it in a

21:51 tactical application. Um, and then just kind of go down the list or would you think of it more of like a bifurcation?

21:57 I mean, how would you how would you structuring that process?

22:01 Well, I think it's interesting what you said because I think what you said is kind of almost like an example of meeting them where they're at, right?

22:05 Because you kind of maybe were doing, you know, all this giving them all this information, doing this free consulting because you had a vision for them in terms of what they needed,

22:14 right? And then as you've had some of these conversations, you realize that maybe they just want this like more simpler analysis, right? It's not something with all the bells and

22:22 whistles. It's maybe something a little more simpler. Um, and that might be the good starting point. And so I think that's a great example of you finding

22:31 out, you know, where your prospects are and meeting them where they're at. So I think, you know, to to answer your question,

22:38 um, you know, just kind of having, um, the ability to kind of say, hey, here's a couple different paths how this could go, um, you know, this conversation.

22:47 And then u, you know, you got to read and react. Sometimes you got to zigg and when, you know, and zag, but read and react accordingly. you know, have your

22:55 questions, but just being able to be have the, you know, the be cognizant enough and just have the emotional intelligence to take that conversation where it needs to go. Um, it may not

23:04 always go as as planned or quote unquote scripted and that's okay. Um, but just really being able to kind of read the tea leaves and understand and then take

23:13 it where where it needs to go. And um, I think that's a great example of it.

23:17 Yeah. I mean, so would it be too on the nose just to be like, "Hey, this is what we help with, but we solve it in a couple different ways." And I can't

23:24 really tell you how we solve it best for you unless we have a longer conversation and then we can Yeah.

23:29 Yeah. Like, hey, here are some of the challenges that my clients, you know, have. Are these relevant in your world?

23:35 Because if so, I'd like to learn a little bit more about how they show up.

23:38 I can't tell you exactly how we solve it or if we can solve it, but um you know, I think it's, you know, if you're cool with it, let's find some time. If it's important enough to you, let's find some

23:46 time where we can have a deeper conversation and then from there, you know, we can determine if it makes sense to dive deeper or, you know, we part as friends.

23:54 Yeah. I mean, I think that just makes it a lot simpler to to manage in my brain when I'm trying to do everything else around a cold call that I'm still becoming comfortable with, but just

24:02 being like, hey, let's not try to solve this the this whole thing on the first call. let's solve the idea that's worth a 15-inute conversation.

24:10 Then I can kind of say, hey, based on what I'm hearing, and this goes way back to in your first thing, which was, you know, you here's a third party example, here's how we

24:19 helped other people in the past using that as a way to then kind of start helping, you know, both parties involved

24:26 say what is the right path forward on that.

24:28 Yeah. So, people in cold call, I mean, we, you know, there's a lot of head trash that we have, right? We're worried about the people that have hung up on us and have, you know, fed colorful four

24:37 and five letter words to us and and things of that nature. And so there's always like I don't want to, you know, make some more calls and interrupt people or things of that

24:44 nature. But really in in its simplest form, you know, when you're calling and you're, you know, prospecting anyway, calling, emailing, social media,

24:52 networking, whatever, it's a sorting exercise, right? You're just trying to figure out is this person a potential

24:59 fit for what I do, right? And it might be a heck no. That's okay. Might be a

25:05 maybe, different bucket. Might be a yes, I'm very interested. Right? And so it's a sorting exercise, but being able to kind of go with that mindset. And it's

25:13 easier said than done, but can you emotionally detach from the outcome, whatever it is, yes, no, or maybe. Um, and being okay with whatever result it

25:23 is, but then, you know, accepting for what it is, and being able to move on, whether it's nope, no, thank you.

25:28 appreciate the, you know, the 30 seconds you gave me today or maybe it's going to evolve into a different conversation.

25:33 But again, not trying to boil the ocean in that first call, right? It just should really just be that starting step.

25:39 Yeah, I definitely I think I find myself trying to boil the ocean too often. I just need to start being like my goal is to get to a 15-minute conversation when I'm not interrupting their day.

25:49 Yeah. And it's tough. And I mean, and and you know, the thing with with prospecting and cold calling, it's difficult because a lot of times you're

25:57 doing a lot of research to figure out who you're going to call in the first place and the person, the company. Um, how does your product or service maybe

26:06 have some relevance in their world or how could it be applicable? And there's all these other things that you got to think about. And then you got to think about what you're going to say if they

26:13 answer and are they going to be a nice person? Are they going to be, you know, grouchy? Whatever. There's all these different things. That's the one thing that, you know, I love about our

26:22 partnership working with you guys is you take a lot of that front part out of it, right? I don't have to do any research necessarily. You know, we're giving you, hey, here's our ideal clients. Here's

26:29 who I'm really seeing a lot of uh, you know, value in providing to these types of businesses or clients and, you know, and you guys do your magic and and find

26:39 us great people to talk to and then I can just go ahead and kind of do my pre-all plan knowing that I've got 20 people I can reach out to today because, you know, you and your team have

26:47 provided that. and um it makes my job a heck of a lot easier. So, you know, there's just different ways that you can

26:54 get that um get assistance to make that prospecting or that calling a little bit easier, right? Yeah.

27:01 All right, Dan, we had an upfront contract and we've gone two minutes over that upfront contract. Any any final parting words? Anything that like as we were talking, you're like, "Hey, I'd

27:09 love to make this point before we sign off." You know, I I think Yeah, two quick things and I appreciate the time uh today and the conversation. This has

27:16 been good. I think two things, right, when when you're thinking about um

27:23 prospecting, you know, in in general, um most sales people, that's their their number one bugaboo. They they hate it.

27:30 They dislike it. If they say they don't, they're probably lying. Uh I think it's really important to um understand that that's a necessary evil, right? You've

27:39 got to put yourself out there. It's going to be uncomfortable. It's not always going to be fun. And uh but you got to have the discipline to just execute on it and make sure you've got

27:46 like weekly, monthly goals uh in terms of your prospecting activities and figure out what those are. You know, is it networking? Is it calling past

27:53 clients for introductions? Is it, you know, emails, social media, LinkedIn, whatever. Um I think the other thing too is, you know, how can you make it

28:01 easier, right? how can you find, you know, services like yours or other things that you can do to make the

28:08 prospecting part of the job a little bit easier and and a little more enjoyable.

28:14 So, those are two things that I would really stress and hit home. Uh because then if things are a little bit easier for us, we're going to be more inclined to do them and do them well. So, yeah.

28:24 Makes sense. All right. Well, appreciate the time, Dan. I'm sure we'll keep talking. Yeah. Love it. Thanks again, Austin.

28:30 Have a great day and we'll talk to you soon. Sounds good.