26. Steve Cashdollar ~ Sandler Training Steve Cashdollar

Transcript

0:03 All right. So, you know, Steve, as you were saying before we hit record, um there's six mistakes that you're seeing these days that sales people are making while prospecting. Uh let's walk through

0:12 them. What's uh what's the first one you're seeing these days?

0:15 Well, the f the first one is lack of personalization.

0:19 Um take a half step back to set a little bit of context if you don't mind. Uh we often hear from you know sales managers,

0:27 sales leaders that um their team's not prospecting enough or that they're chasing the same uh leads or same people

0:36 that pipelines looks like the same names keep showing up. Austin and and often times some tried and

0:43 trueue methods from say 20 years ago that maybe that sales manager learned from his sales manager from his sales manager that that that they just don't

0:52 work. So, and we don't think it's the salespeople not getting it. It's that, you know, we want to challenge that a

0:59 little bit. So, maybe today we can uh talk a little bit about the things we've identified through our research and just

1:06 working with hundreds maybe thousands of of companies and some of the research we've learned about uh today's buyer and

1:14 you know before we talk about the six you you know and I guess we all know in a in a way that today's buyer is more

1:21 savvy and they're more uh they they've got more knowledge, but they're also more skeptical.

1:28 Would you there's a lot less trust, right, going around these days. Yeah.

1:33 So, that's kind of where this idea of identifying six six prospecting mistakes and and we'll try to give you some

1:41 specific things to do about it down to earth. uh our our organization at Sandler Training is famous for selling for rules

1:49 and um and uh I think the the the one thing we always say is if your competition's doing something try to stop doing that right away.

1:59 Yeah.

1:59 To to so so so some of these ideas are are are focused about on this thing called differentiation. Differentiating

2:07 yourself so you're not you don't sound like every other schmuck out there. And that's that's that's tough because you know I was trained by one generation and

2:16 then that generation. So there's still a lot of that going on and I get those kind of calls and emails and connect

2:22 connection requests all the time. So we'll see if we can't stand out from the crowd a little bit. Um so so can can we start with number one now?

2:31 Yeah. Do what you just asked me to do.

2:34 I appreciate you taking the half step back. I think I just got too excited to learn about all six. I was like let's just get after it. And I think that context was super helpful. Um, so yes, I'd like to hear about personalization.

2:44 I'm really curious where you're going to take it.

2:46 Mistake number one is lack of real personalization. This was the big one.

2:50 If we only had time to do one, I think we'd do we'd do this today. And I know we have more time than that. The the

2:57 idea of a real personalization. So, um, the the whole the whole crux of the issue of personalization is that I would

3:05 like for my message to you to look like it's only for it's only for your eyes.

3:14 As opposed to, hey, Austin, I see you some doing some really cool stuff over there on LinkedIn. We should meet sometime. You know, I can do a million of those.

3:22 Yeah.

3:23 And and you know, it used to be, this may be overstating it a little bit, but it used to be I could put your name in in the subject line and and that would

3:31 get your attention, but but but we that's not customization anymore, right?

3:36 So, we can do a million of those every day and I get a handful of those, don't you? So, the issue,

3:44 what what would be a an example of um personalization? It need it needs a

3:50 little homework. So, I would rather see if I can say this properly. I would

3:56 rather you prospect to 10 people today with uh homework, research, something going on in their company, something

4:04 going on in their life. They wrote a book, they got a promotion, their company's expanding. Could be about their industry, could be about their geography, it could be about their own

4:12 work, could be their own life. I guess without being too intrusive even about their personal life, especially if they,

4:20 you know, if they've been recognized for something. So, I'll go back to my point there. Let's let's reduce the number we're trying to mass prospect and and

4:29 when we do prospect, it's a very very personalized uh message. Um, you know, I I I get I

4:38 get Yeah.

4:39 I get things like this. Here's one I got yesterday. Uh, Steve, I'm I've been hearing buzz about your company. Would love to connect.

4:48 What? I What buzz? I wish there was. I'm kidding. Or here's one I also wrote down. I I noticed your skills as a coach

4:55 and decided to connect our networks and skills could be mutually beneficial.

5:00 Seems like you're doing some great work at Sandler.

5:03 How are you handling this? Um, that was better. At least there's a call to action there.

5:08 Pardon me. Um, so see the difference. So that might get my attention. Uh, I wrote

5:15 a book some time ago called Simple Courage. And when that's when Simple Courage and somebody says I I liked your book, Simple Courage. Do you do you suppose I open that email?

5:25 Yeah. A lot more often than just cool. I see your trainer and then go from there, right?

5:30 Yeah. It goes from just generic to anybody to to to to me. So yeah, the simple answer is we work really hard

5:38 on front end before we um ever reach out to someone. Not we're we're still making that same mistake some, but we create a

5:46 hyper personalized message and we don't we can't do that for a million and nobody can handle a million customers anyway, right? At least not not my

5:55 clients. So, so that may may not be all of what we're doing, but we need to do if we want to be more competitive and

6:03 stand out from the crowd before we ever reach out, let's do some things. Of all, here's the here's the thing worth writing down today. Of all the people in

6:12 the world, you're the only person on the planet who could have received that particular message.

6:17 I'll let that sink in. What do you think?

6:19 Yeah. No, that's great. I think you know you you pointed out something I think was really interesting is that it used to just be you could put a name in there

6:26 that person's name and the subject line that catch their attention and so somebody came along with technology and they figured out how to mass output subject lines that have just the

6:35 person's name right and then it swaps it out and can you know automatically put in the right person's name. So then all of a sudden that becomes noise and you

6:43 you're like yeah I'm not falling for this trick. So then you go into the next stage which is well I'm gonna say something like I was looking at your LinkedIn profile and now we have AI

6:51 coming out and it's mimicking that same low bar like bar like bar of saying like okay well now I'm going to say like this

6:59 one thing that I noticed from your LinkedIn even though it wasn't linked you me noticing it it was an AI bot going in and just autogenerating that first line and at first it was kind of

7:07 novel and cool but now I can the second I see one of those emails I know that it was written by AI and it wasn't written by them because there's a very distinct

7:14 pattern pattern. Um, and so I'm curious, you know, as we're going in and trying to create these very customized, uh, you

7:22 know, emails that are really are genuinely, even if it's just me as a human trying to do it, but I'm trying to avoid looking like AI doing it, you

7:30 know, do you have any guidance on how to navigate that water?

7:34 Well, that's a that's a great question, loaded question. you know, uh, we I've been studying AI for a couple years and

7:42 using it and and and teaching some of my clients about it and most of my clients need help on how to use it. You know,

7:49 there's just a small percentage the ex I think Salesforce did some study on this.

7:53 There's a really small percentage of people like you and I actually using AI other than a spell checker or, you know, where's a good place to eat or an

8:01 expanded Google. So to go, you know, going deeper, there's still a lot of work to be done, at least what we're seeing. Yeah.

8:08 But I do I do believe also that some CEOs, you know, I'm always reaching out to CEOs and sales directors and VP

8:17 of sales, they're starting to recognize an AI an AI structure or an AI outline.

8:23 All of a sudden, they're getting these great outlines from Steve that are they're expanded and they're involved and they're they're well rewarded.

8:30 Usually mine were kind of conversational and a little bit, you know, too simple.

8:35 All of a sudden, what did he did he just get a PhD, you know, from the Wharton school or whatever. So, you got to be

8:42 careful that it's those are now starting those those AI developed contents are

8:49 starting to show up as not real. What's your take on that?

8:53 Um, I it just uh you know, I've been messing around with it since like Chad GB D3. So what does that put me like two two and a half years in? Um and you know

9:02 at first it was kind of fun to see like the variation in it but um you know I can now I can read it and there's very

9:10 common um structures that AI is putting into place. And so for me, you know, like that kind of feels like to some degree I'd rather just have a template.

9:20 Like if somebody's going to send me like an email, I think I'd rather just have a standard template than them trying to trick me into thinking that I they actually personalized it to me cuz they

9:29 didn't. Um now, if somebody does personalize it to me, I', you know, I do think I can kind of pick up on it. Um but I think that like a lot of the guidance that's out there from what I

9:37 can say see and this isn't where I spend a ton of my time crafting, you know, emails as like my expertise. Um, I I

9:46 think that there's just like some guidance that AI has sucked up and put into its engine to then start following that guidance every single time. And so

9:54 I, you know, I know big thing for, you know, being a Sandler seller, you want to have pattern disrupts or pattern interrupts. I always mix those up. Sorry

10:01 about that. Um, and then just making sure that when you're crafting your email, you are maybe even just going against best practices or you're just

10:09 doing something in a way that's just kind of like, hey, I know all the the 10 best ways to write an opening line in an email or these. I am now going to avoid

10:16 those no matter what because I suck that up and is now, you know, producing those opening lines based on what those best practices are. And all of a sudden now

10:25 you're just doing what everyone else has done. So, it's almost like this constant game of like how do I how do I go find out what the best practice is and run the opposite direction.

10:34 Yeah. You know, I want I want to give you an example from real life. Yeah.

10:40 We have permission from our client to use this. It's a a message that is is

10:47 personalized. Um and we can do this 10 times a day. Um perhaps maybe not a

10:55 hundred. So, um, this is a message from a client, um, trying to reach out to a prospect. I'm going to read it. Okay.

11:03 Uh, hi Jerry. I think that this was, uh, this was a LinkedIn LinkedIn request to connect. I hope to request to connect.

11:12 Sorry. So, hi Jerry. Thanks for connecting.

11:15 The mutant Sherlock Holmes activation at ComicCon was truly amazing. I walked by as you were starting to let people

11:24 through and wow that was a big line at your booth. Do you have your own team of brand ambassadors for those activations or do you use an agency?

11:35 Yeah.

11:37 She's from an agency. Now, we're not always going to have a personal experience walking by somebody's beautiful display at Comic Con or some

11:46 sort even a Chamber of Commerce event, but that's that's that's um you know, did she make the case for for opening a

11:55 conversation? See, the only way Jerry could have possibly gotten that message was for sure for her to actually have

12:02 been there. So, I get that this is this is ideal. I'm I'm painting a a pretty picture here, but notice what's happening at the booth and notice

12:09 something about what's going on in his world and then circled back um um later.

12:15 Um here's here's here's what she she said as her second Well, here's how here's how he responded. Okay. Is this is this all right? So, here's how you

12:24 responded. Great outbound message. It definitely has been the most impressive I've seen in quite some time. So, hats off. Yeah.

12:32 Lol. So, so you know this this is a marketing guy too, so he's noticing stuff. But then he says, "As far as sourcing, I have a network of about 20

12:41 BAS for Los Angeles and my colleagues do the same thing for their event areas.

12:45 Hope this finds you well." So suddenly, suddenly there's a relationship, there's

12:53 a conversation. She wasn't asking for some big call to action. She wasn't asking to meet up. She wasn't she wasn't

13:00 asking it. She was just wonder she was just wondering she asked a po a poignant question and now they and and now and now there's a conversation and that's

13:08 what we want. So we teach our our clients and and all of our prospective clients we're we're just we're just

13:16 asking for a conversation and oftentimes we get ahead of ourselves and say hey how about a meetup or how about a quick coffee break or how about

13:24 a Zoom call talk about what's you know it's too soon it's too quick. You know, if if if if I meet somebody at Starbucks

13:31 and I say, "Hey, I really I I really like you look you you're really cool. I wonder if you'd like to go to Florence with me.

13:39 It's too quick. It's it's too much." And we do that every We do that all day long with our prospecting.

13:45 Yeah. It's that rapport building that needs to get done in order to then actually earn the next step of those conversations to continue to like really develop it beyond just trying to jump into your end result.

13:55 Yeah. Yeah. Some we get some response from using this example and some people say that wouldn't work for us. It's too cutesy.

14:02 People on our industry wouldn't respond.

14:04 Well, maybe but but give me a break. You know, what you say to make your case is up to you. Yeah.

14:11 But and maybe that was her style, but you still have to make your case that you're paying attention. And if you don't make it crystal clear to that

14:19 prospect that you that that that that you're talking about his or her universe, then you haven't made a case.

14:25 you'll be ignored. Click, delete. So, that's just the reality. And um so say what perfect words to use, of

14:33 course, but I'm saying and I'm saying you don't have to go to a trade show to understand maybe a little bit about what some's going on in your prospect's

14:42 world. Of course, you can't I get I used a perfect example there and it just clicked like a great example of what I'm trying to teach. So, you can say

14:50 anything you want if if what you if what you say proves uh proves that you've done your homework and you're not a bot and you're not

14:57 spamming people and you're not too you're not too cute, you're not trying to trick them into talking to you. Um,

15:04 we got to find something that shows them clearly and fast fast that you've done your research that we care. We authentically care.

15:13 So, authentic curiosity is not a bad call to action. Yeah, I think that that's a really good point on the authentic curiosity and not being

15:21 something that uh you can't like a bot's not going to have authentic curiosity. It's going to have programmed curiosity.

15:28 Got to be authentic.

15:29 Speaking of call to action, that's number two. You ready for number two? Let's rock it.

15:34 Um we were all taught at some point to have a call to action, a request, you know,

15:40 that we we want to commit to doing something. And usually um we do make that some some sort of request, but our

15:48 landscape has changed a lot. You know, we talked about that when we opened up the call. The calls to action that worked 10 years ago um aren't very

15:57 effective. I see if I can give you an example. Um our call to actions got to set us apart a little bit.

16:06 Like um Oh, are you available Tuesday or Thursday, Austin, at 10?

16:13 That's right. Out in 1985, by the way, the insurance industry, give two alternative times.

16:18 Yeah, I'm old enough to have been there.

16:21 I'm speaking from something I know. Or, hey, can we talk tomorrow morning? Or what's a good day to connect on the uh, you know, this week? Please let me know.

16:29 You know, where I asking our prospect to take the initiative to go back to us, let us know. Let me know. I mean, we

16:36 haven't even met yet. Are they going to let you know? No. Click delete. So in these situations where we don't have a relationship

16:45 uh with the person, those calls to action are are uh probably not going to work.

16:50 And you know what happens is um what happens is with prospecting, the reason why people don't prospect enough is

16:58 because their system's not reliable. You know, they say, "Make a 100 calls a day, Steve, but if if I get like one response, I'm going to burn out pretty

17:05 quick." So, um let's let's let's make sure we've got a resp responsible um

17:13 prospecting process that works so that way we can rely on it.

17:17 And once we can rely on it, we'll do more, right?

17:21 If I ask for a girl to dance at a high school at a high school dance and and they always say yes, I'm going to keep doing that, right?

17:30 Um, so that's oversimplifying it, but let's figure out what works today today's buyer, what they respond to. So,

17:38 call to actions. What? Be careful um about what what you're doing there. Make sure it's easy to answer and don't go too deep too fast.

17:47 Yeah. So, what's the what's the better call to action than than giving the two times or what what should people start doing instead or what should they start

17:54 considering as the right way to set that up? It could be just as simple as I wonder if you know I wonder if we should have a conversation or as she as she

18:02 said let me pull that back up. She said do you have your own team of brand ambassadors for these actions or act activations? Do you have your own I'm

18:09 wondering if you have your own team of of ambassadors. So I I would I want to make it about them not about me.

18:16 I don't have a I don't have a standard there that would work everywhere. So what would be a qu I I tr typically ask a question um how how are you doing with

18:26 your ABC or do you have um that's about as specific as I I can offer today um you have to change your

18:34 mindset make sure it's about your buyer not you and don't push too quickly.

18:39 Yeah. Yeah. So, it it really is just slowing it down to kind of speed it up to some degree. It's saying like, "Let's not try to get somebody directly into a Zoom call, but let's have a couple

18:48 conversations." And because I'm having some back and forth on LinkedIn before I ask for a 15-minute call, it's going to then speed up the rest of my process

18:56 because I've earned the rapport and I'm getting ghosted all the time. Yeah.

19:00 Okay. We got to find something that shows them that we've done our homework, that we care, and that we know something that they care about

19:08 and that we're reaching out with authentic intention to help if there if there's any interest in that.

19:19 Does that help a little bit?

19:21 Does. Yeah. Yeah. I think uh you know, I think a lot of people want to get straight to that Zoom meeting. I've even had people connect with me on LinkedIn

19:30 and then like just go straight into saying, "Let's just get on a Zoom call." I'm like, "I'm not even sure what you want to talk about on the Zoom call." Like, why should I carve out 15 minutes?

19:40 Yeah. I I even get I even get calls to action like go ahead and we you've been approved or you've been hand selected, you know, loaning money or something like that.

19:48 Yeah.

19:49 I don't even know who they are. I in fact I got one this morning that who who is that um asking me to take the next

19:56 step on something I don't remember the first step.

19:59 It's just trickery. They're trying to trick me into to something which just people are too savvy for that. Mostly they are. Yeah.

20:07 The third the third mistake is probably a failure to pick up the phone.

20:14 When I work with I love 20somes and 30somes. They keep me honest and I I love teaching. Well, I they're kids to

20:20 me. I shouldn't say that, but um I love teaching the the young young people in my classes and in our when we're consulting and teaching and working with

20:29 companies, but the one thing they do is they hide now from phone. They use the they use all the social media and and emails and

20:37 um so we're teaching them something different. This is this is fun and this is easy. Um

20:45 um we don't use the call the phone call now to have a conversation in real time because people don't answer anyway.

20:54 Yeah.

20:54 So typically what we were hearing over and over and over I this is Steve from Sandler Training. Uh looking forward to talking to you about your sales training. Give me a call 317555555.

21:05 Does anybody ever call back on those? No.

21:09 Unless it's to tell you to take take them off their list or Yeah. for the purpose. But we keep doing that. And by the way, that makes it

21:16 sound like every other human is doing the same thing. Leaving my number, leaving the number and asking me to call them back. I'm not gonna I'm not going

21:25 to I may not even hear the message. Not everybody even listens to their voicemail anymore.

21:30 So, we don't imagine that they're going to answer that. And what? Let's quit beating ourselves up over that. Austin, let's quit doing stuff. If it doesn't

21:38 work, let's do something better. So, now you know. So, so it doesn't mean that um well,

21:48 when when we leave a message uh uh these days, what we're teaching is different.

21:52 And this may not this may not set real well with everyone, but we're going to say something like, u Austin, I'm sorry

22:01 I missed you today. This is Steve Cashdoll at Sandler Training. I'm going to drop a quick email to you so you can kind of make a ne connection and I'll reach back out in two or three days.

22:11 look forward to meeting you. That's it. No phone number. Yeah.

22:16 People say, "I might as well give them my phone number." Well, yeah, you could keep doing that. That's 1995 and that doesn't work. So, let's let's just show this buyer. So, then you follow up. So,

22:26 send the email. I have sometimes say, "I'm going to just send a one-s sentence email to you so you can connect a face with a voice or what?" or something like that. And I appreciate it and look forward to trying to catch you tomorrow.

22:36 So I I want the buyer or the prospect to just know this guy's really trying to get a hold of me. So we're going to talk

22:43 about that in a minute called the cadence of how we reach out to a prospect. But the the mistake is using the phone in in a manner that it really

22:52 doesn't work like you know some people say they don't not don't make any calls anymore but we we we can and we just use it differently. It's just one more touch. It's one more impression.

23:02 Does that ring does that ring true?

23:03 Yeah. Actually, I find that the phone is the most powerful touch in all of my sequences, cadences. Um, it it's the one

23:11 that moves the needle the most and is bar none. Like the most that's the activity that gets me the most results when I'm doing my prospecting at this

23:18 point in time. Um, out of curiosity, you know, you were talking earlier about the uh the personalization that, you know,

23:26 being the big mistake and then, you know, if we're talking that into the phone, like would you recommend that there's, you know, a, you know, a

23:35 thought through here's I'm going to personalize this voicemail cuz I feel like when you get somebody on the phone, you can immediately start personalizing because you're having a fluid conversation and you're not trying to

23:44 capture their attention with like written word. you you start reacting and if you're if you're actually having a a you know prospecting conversation

23:52 there's back and forth and you're adapting and you're learning from the other person about what they're you know wanting to talk about. Um but then for like a voicemail I could see where you

24:00 know does it make sense or is it just one of those things where keep it light you know don't worry too much about trying to you know drop some sort of special nugget in there during that voicemail.

24:09 It's it's a good question. I'm not going to give them a sales pitch. Mhm. I'm not even leaving my number.

24:15 Yeah. they're probably they're they're probably seeing the number anyway, you know, on their system. All I'm doing is connecting the dots. So, the unspoken

24:22 message is uh I'm the same person who's trying to reach you via email or who's trying to reach you by LinkedIn or who's

24:29 trying to reach you by whatever platform I am and I'm using all the different tools at my disposal. So, I'm professional. I'm uh also polite. I'm

24:38 persistent and I'm investing time. I'm just asking for a conversation. I'm not selling. I think the investing time part

24:46 I think it is interesting because like let's say you send that email and you may or may not personalize it super well to catch their attention. But if you've

24:54 shown that you're willing to actually also call them and you're going to call them a couple times, you're going to email them a couple times. As long as you know it's relevant to what they're doing, they're like, "Well, this person

25:03 is genuinely interested in exploring something. They're not just kind of putting me on their list of 10,000 people are going to get emailed this week." So it'll at least let you stand

25:11 apart in that way. It seems like and that's been my experience so far with you know doing that kind of cold outreach with the phone included in it.

25:19 Yeah. Very good. You know this approach is non-negotiable when with me. Think about it. We all know

25:26 people who uh for one reason or another don't um don't check their mail or don't respond to LinkedIn or don't respond to

25:34 maybe not maybe they don't even hear their voice messages. We don't know how this prospect Mr. Jones prefers to communicate.

25:43 Yeah.

25:43 So, with me so far? We also know, you know, either they're bad at deleting messages or they never listen or or they

25:53 uh forget to call back. You there's a The point is we don't know what kind of person we're dealing with yet. So, so reaching out to a prospect for the first time, let's sort that out a little bit.

26:03 Let's in Sandler we say let's stay behind the pendulum. Don't get ahead of the client. stay behind them and uh that's part of that. That's

26:12 oldfashioned training, but it applies it applies here. Yeah.

26:17 Great. So, what's uh number four was cadence. Is that right?

26:21 No, number four is not using combos, but cadence will be next. Okay.

26:27 A combo is kind of what I was just describing. Uh when I use combos that means that on a single day I'm reaching out to the same prospect for more than

26:36 one from from what more than one channel. Yeah.

26:40 So if I did make that phone call no answer then that same day um an email goes out um just very simple. So so the

26:49 phone the phone message is just really simple. Uh hi hi hi Austin. This is Steve. Sorry I missed you today. um I'm

26:57 going to send you an email explain why I'm reaching out to you. Talk to you soon. Click. So then the email would be

27:05 maybe that very similar um we'll talk about that in a little bit on on the cadence. So um the fourth mistake is is

27:13 just maybe just hammering the phone. U combo combos is a gamechanging technique that's hard to sell to people. It's hard

27:21 to sell this to especially sales people that have been around a while. Most people still haven't heard of the the term even. So, let let me explain. Um,

27:29 when I use the term combos, um, so I'm reaching out to the same prospect and I may um over a threeday period do

27:37 voicemail, LinkedIn request, um maybe a maybe maybe an email, maybe a a

27:45 LinkedIn instant message or whatever they call them. Um, I'm I'm leaving a similar message trying to reach you. Looking forward to connecting with you.

27:53 I'm going to leave that voicemail first probably. Then I'm going to send a LinkedIn request. Then I'm going to send a hyperpersonalized email.

28:01 So, and and if you looked at a calendar, picture this like a checkerboard or a Zoom call when you've got 20 people.

28:10 So, so look at your calendar and the cadence could be every three days or four days and people will say that's way too much. I'm going to drive them crazy.

28:17 Not really because they're not even seeing all of those. the chances are maybe one connects, maybe two, but the chances of all those being seen, read,

28:25 heard is very slim. And I'm also trying to figure out what what avenue they use.

28:32 But the biggest thing with this idea of combos, there's two things. One is I want that person to know I'm really trying to get a hold of them.

28:40 And and the other thing is I I have learned that most salespeople wait too

28:46 long to follow up. So, I call maybe I call twice. He's not calling me back.

28:52 He's ghosting me. I hate that word, don't you? He's ghosting me. He's not ghosting anybody. You just haven't connected yet. It's not on him or her.

29:00 Nobody's ghosting you. And that and that. Um, if we wait, say, three weeks or two weeks, it's too long.

29:08 So, the cadence has to be shortened up.

29:11 Even though you feel like it might be a touch intrusive, it's probably not.

29:16 Yeah. Well, you know, I've I've worked with people talked to people who uh you know, they will grab every phone number for that individual, their mobile

29:24 number, their direct office line, and their main line, and they might start a Hey, I don't do it that way, but you

29:31 know, I've had people who say, I'll call them on the mobile, and then I'll try them on their office line, and I'll, you know, we'll do like this double tap to show like I really am trying to get a

29:39 hold of you. You're not just somebody on my list. Um now is that maybe a little aggressive in certain you know industries or for certain sellers

29:47 potentially but I think you know there is that you know idea of show the person you're genuinely interested in having a conversation and starting to you know

29:55 explore the idea together. Um and I think that comes with you know being close to having actions close to each

30:03 other. Um, now would I call two numbers back to back? Definitely not. But, you know, most people don't over push. They don't

30:12 want to be aggressive. They don't want to sound pushy. So, the idea of doing it too much I don't run into very often. Yeah.

30:19 Um, but I like the idea of different modes, different modalities, different methods as opposed to phone call, phone call, phone call. Um, and and and use

30:28 that phone for a different reason. a friendly professional. Um, hey Austin, this is Steve from Sandler. Since I

30:37 didn't catch you, I'm going to send you an email explain why I'm reaching out.

30:41 I'm also going to drop you a quick LinkedIn connection, a request to put a face with a name. I really appreciate that and I'll talk to you soon. So, that's different than push push push.

30:51 That's professional. It's courteous. is has shown some common courtesy and that's way that's always the way I want

30:57 to present you know I'm talking to savvy business buyers so and we all are in a fashion all of our buyers are more savvy than they used to be.

31:07 Yeah.

31:09 So do it authentically and do it with confidence. Do it as a peer as we call it equal business stature. You've heard that term

31:16 equal business stature as opposed to peddler and buyer or sales guy Steve talking to CEO. That's that's just two humans.

31:26 Yeah.

31:26 Um connecting connecting to see if we should even have a conversation.

31:32 All right, we've got six minutes left on our Zoom before we get kicked off. So I'd love to hear five and six if possible. Uh well at five we can keep it short.

31:41 The mistake is short shorten up this the cadence.

31:44 Yeah. If it's too often sales people will make some kind of outreach attempt and then they'll wait too long before the next

31:51 and then they're starting over. So even two weeks after sending that email uh uh too long.

31:59 Yep.

32:00 So so so then so then that's pretty simple I guess. The sixth is um be the sixth is making a mistake ignoring your

32:10 digital presence. Um, one of the things I'd encourage everybody that's on that watches your call, um, is to take a look

32:17 at your LinkedIn and your Facebook and all your social media and how are you coming across?

32:22 Um, people today when you reach out to me, there's a good chance I'm going to look up your LinkedIn. I'm going to look I'm going to look up before I return your call or before I take the meeting

32:31 or if we did take a meeting, I'm probably going to do a little homework on you. Yeah.

32:35 Now, all industries are different. So, let's assume that they're going to look you up. So if all of your pictures on uh on social media are with a a beer in your hand.

32:45 Yeah.

32:46 Uh but think that that was okay when you were a senior in college. But and then the other thing to look out for is

32:54 um like say for a lot your LinkedIn profile. This is just one simple example before we run out of time. Oftent times

33:01 it talks about uh it makes it look like I'm looking for a job. I want your LinkedIn that that line or two under your under your name not about you but

33:10 you know the the headline is I help boo I help I help successful

33:17 salespeople sell more do better whatever it is I want it to show what I'm doing right now

33:25 for my customers not how good I am at everything and and mo most LinkedIn it looks like especially you say more recent college

33:33 grads it looks like they're still looking.

33:35 Yeah. Now, make it a 10-second commercial about how you help people like them and it'll change the dynamic of that first

33:43 impression. So, those last two are kind of quick, but they're pretty simple. Yeah, I I think it makes a lot of sense.

33:50 you know, I feel like LinkedIn is pretty, you know, standard to have, but then like in terms of the other social media, do you think there's any, you

33:57 know, like if somebody doesn't have Facebook, you wouldn't say go put it up or would you say that actually helps humanize you and could be an interesting thing to add as well?

34:07 Well, I would just look at all my social media. Uh, I don't know, you know, what I think every industry is different, too. So, you know, if I'm doing if I'm

34:15 if I'm recruiting, you know, but if I'm selling, let's think about who we're selling to and what kind of impression

34:22 do we want to make to that person as opposed to guys we went to college with or whatever.

34:28 Yeah. And then just have that maybe not maybe not increase your social presence, but it sounds like at least have a LinkedIn just because that's kind of

34:35 like a standard these days. And then beyond that, just make sure things are clean if you have them, but don't worry too much about them.

34:42 clean them up a little bit. But LinkedIn is a must, I believe, for a b for a professional salesperson.

34:47 Yeah, I feel like it just kind of it's like not having a website for your business. LinkedIn is kind of like that next iteration is what it kind of feels. Yeah.

34:55 Yeah.

34:56 Um, cool. Well, these are great. Uh, it's great to have like a perspective on six mistakes that people are making right now and be able to help people get

35:05 past that. Steve, are there any final thoughts or like summation of what we just talked about that you really want to, you know, drive home as we end this uh episode?

35:14 I would just say always be yourself and be authentic. It's okay to be a touch vulnerable. We don't have to know it all. And if we come across like we have

35:22 the answer to the the world's problems, it it seems inauthentic. So, be yourself. Know your product inside and

35:29 out. And be more interested in them and a little less about you. Our rule is always 7030. The buyer should be talking

35:36 70% of the time and the seller 30. It's called the 7030 rule. And that's not a bad takeaway. I I suppose on today's

35:45 call, I think it's great. I really love the authenticity part. I think that really helps navigate a lot of, you know, the mistakes that people make with prospecting. It's if you can be like, is

35:53 this authentic to me? That's going to make you stand out and it's going to be easier to do as well.

35:58 As long as you're willing to pick up the phone and do the work. Yeah. Yeah. Stay after it. Believe in your product.

36:05 That gives you some incentive to stay after it and and um keep going.

36:10 Cool. Well, Steve, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.