Nicole Vorkapic on Sales Hiring, Role Clarity, and New Rep Ramp

Transcript

0:03 So, Nicole, tell me a little bit more about this uh this team that you're helping hire out 11 new reps for.

0:09 Yeah, sure. So, this client is um a healthcare client and um was doing a

0:16 really basically a complete rebuild of his team and then wanting to expand um some of the products that he had had changed. So, the kind of rep that he was

0:25 looking for was really different than what he had in the past. So, I think the way that we decided to approach it, and

0:33 this is what I've done in all of my previous corporate jobs I've had and with some other clients, is um honestly I I start off with the job description.

0:42 Um it really requires extreme clarity on exactly the jobs to

0:49 be done by the rep. And let me explain that a little bit. If you got a team that's got inside salespeople,

0:58 outside salespeople, or maybe you're even thinking that you want to split up your hunter versus your farmer roles,

1:06 those are really different and how you hire for those and the things that you look with those kinds of people are going to

1:12 be very different. So, I think getting real clarity on the job description is important. And I mentioned that this

1:20 client is healthcare. That's important because in some healthc care clients and I'm using this as an example um having

1:27 clinical knowledge is really important you know for the rep to be successful um you know but you got to decide is

1:35 that is that really required in the type of role that you're trying to go out and you hunt for. For example, if it's a

1:41 hunter role and you're strictly looking to get a rep to go out and open up doors, think lead generation, right? Do

1:50 they really need to be a subject matter expert at all the products or do they need just to be able to know a little bit about the industry but really know

1:57 how to sell? Right? So that really determines sort of the skill sets that you're really trying to hire for. So

2:04 going through that, like really thinking about what the job is, what the job is going to be doing, and writing a job

2:12 description to that becomes like super important because then if you've just got a generic job description out there, you're just going to get a load of

2:20 résumés of people that as you start to read the resume, you're going to be like, "This isn't really what I had in mind." And it's only because you just

2:29 didn't do the work uh up front. And so, um, I think a lot of people sort of dismiss this idea of job descriptions. I

2:37 think it's like super important. Um, it's like thinking about the clients that you're calling on and who your ideal client profile is. It's the exact

2:45 same sort of like fundamentals that so they sort of parallel. The more clarity you have on that, the better you're going to be at sort of like you're

2:53 hiring and certainly the initial part of like the screening so that you feel like you're getting higher quality candidates.

3:00 So, what are some of the key elements of putting together the job description, especially for like a hunter? Like, are you trying to, you know, really

3:08 emphasize how much hunting they're going to be doing so that you're really weeding out the people who are uncomfortable with it, or is it something that's more of a subtext?

3:16 Like, what what should I be thinking of as I'm trying to put together a really dialed in job description to find the right people?

3:23 Yeah. No, that's great. So, you know, um, and let's not get hung up on the titles because titles can mean different things at different companies, right?

3:31 So, if it's a real hunter role and their job is that they're going to be out really generating lead generation and

3:40 qualifying accounts, you kind of really just say that. I mean, and honestly, I don't think you have to nuance the words very much. I think you go, you know, the

3:49 primary role of this job is to go out and hunt and open up new accounts, you know, and your job is going to be

3:57 qualifying accounts, you know, and you can get very specific in the bullet points. I I do think I think the more I think the more direct you are about

4:05 exactly what they're doing without using big words but just making it practical the more clarity you are and then the rep having the rep but the candidate

4:14 having super clear idea about exactly what's expected of them. There should be absolutely no gray area because once

4:21 there's sort of gray area in their roles and responsibilities then you're going to you're going to get different results you know. So the more

4:30 clear you are, the better. If it is a sort of farming type role, oftentimes account management is a word that we use

4:38 for that. Account management is you're managing the account. It's an account that already exists. It's a client you already have. And that role is someone going deeper in the relationship, right?

4:51 And it's relationship building. It's consultative selling skills. It's, you know, taking products they have today,

4:59 making sure you continue to get those same sales of those products, but that you're finding ways to go deeper and sell more services.

5:08 Very different role, very different kinds of skill sets and and what is expected of them. And I also believe too that there are two totally two different

5:16 kinds of salespeople. Um, you know, some people really love and excel at account management and going deep in relationship building because that's

5:24 their personality and it feels comfortable for them. You write comp plans to that, right? Uh, that is very different than the guy that just likes

5:33 to go out and might be more transactional. It's a little bit more his style. It fits his personality or her personality, right? Uh, and they

5:42 like the fast pace. So understanding sort of the type of person to do each of those jobs also helps you to identify personality types.

5:52 Yeah.

5:52 And what you think is going to fit better. Yeah.

5:54 So when you're talking about this clarity that you need to have and like the gray areas when you start losing track or losing the ability to really filter at the top of the funnel

6:02 basically you have any high level guidance or you know tips or wisdom to share on how to make sure that clarity is there. like if you start using these

6:12 words, you're you're probably watering down the wrong path. Or if you maybe hand it off to a colleague and if they can't tell immediately from reading it

6:19 what role that that role is supposed to be, then you know you're not in the right spot. Try again. Like how would somebody try to start to navigate that at least?

6:26 Um yeah, I always say there's always I always lean on your trusted advisor. So whether it's a partner in the organization and particularly say like

6:34 if you're a business owner and [clears throat] you're kind of the person that's has oversight of the sales function and

6:41 then maybe your partner has oversight of operations or finance and maybe is sort of less salesoriented. I think this

6:49 whole is really good lit test because it's you know I go back to using the word practical and logical and that person can't say oh yeah I can clearly

6:58 delineate that this person is going to be out generating leads and sort of the top of the funnel this person is more downstream and is account management.

7:08 Yeah, those are great litmus tests. I also think too um as soon as you said like you're using um tools like Indeed

7:16 or you know some of the the online recruitment tools out there to find candidates um you know looking at the

7:23 types of candidates in those first couple of days too always gives you a super great indication as to whether or not you're hitting the right kind of

7:31 client or the right kind of candidate, sorry. and then that way you know if you need to make some tweaks into your into your job description. So I really do

7:39 tend to pay attention to those first early days that first week in particular and looking at the quality of the

7:46 candidates coming through and if you are really rejecting more than 50% I would say you know

7:54 definitely then something's probably not right with your job description.

7:58 And listen, there's always going to be candidates that's going to apply that's trying to punch above their weight.

8:04 That's not what I'm referring to. But if it's really consistent and you're seeing a pattern in the the level of quality, then yeah, there's you probably need

8:12 some refinement into your job description. And those are easy things to to make.

8:16 Yeah, I feel like that's super easy to monitor. And it's it's giving yourself forgiveness of just being like, uh, all right, I messed that one up, but hey, you know, 75% of the people applying for

8:25 my Hunter role all have account management titles. I must have written something wrong. Back to the drawing board. Right. Right. Absolutely.

8:33 So, absolutely. Oh, sorry. Go for it.

8:36 Well, so I was gonna say, you know, there's one other huge mistake um that I see in small business owners, and I'm

8:44 just going to call it out before you ask the question. Um, most oftent times small business owners

8:52 truly believe they need to hire someone within their industry that's got deep industry knowledge. And we go back to

9:00 something that I said earlier around being a subject matter expert. Um, I think that is not really a great formula

9:09 and I have not seen it work well and I'll kind of explain why I say that. Um, selling is one of those jobs that most

9:17 all of us really think is pretty easy until you're the person that's actually in front of a client. You realize, I really don't like this. You know what I

9:25 mean? And selling is also one of those just highly nuanced roles. It kind of goes back, we were talking earlier

9:32 about, you know, I come from operations and I'm really used to hiring operations people versus sales people. you know, it's it's a little bit more black and

9:41 white, less gray, uh, around operational roles and what you expect of them and, you know, looking at certifications to

9:49 be able to sort of check the box for, you know, are they going to be good or not? Do they have the right skill sets or not? Well, in sales, it's a little

9:57 it's not as it's not as black and white, right? Um, but I always say this, if you're the business owner, you are the subject matter expert. you know your

10:04 products, you built your products, you designed your products, you you will never hire someone that knows more than

10:11 you about that, right? So, what that business owner needs is someone that actually is a seller. It's not about the

10:20 industry. Okay? you might want to hire within your vertical so they've got lingo and they kind of understand, you know, who the clients are and a little

10:28 bit of like what the industry does and and how the industry moves and operates and what those sales motions look like.

10:36 But you don't have to hire the expert.

10:38 You don't have to hire the person with the really deep networks, at least not when you're a small business and you're starting, right? You need to hire somebody that's got skill sets that you

10:46 don't have. And that is learning how to sell. So, and knowing how to sell. And so, usually when I look at a candidate,

10:54 I'm always looking at, have they actually sold? Um, have they actually been in real sales positions before? And

11:02 how have they performed in those sales positions? Past performances always tells you what their future is going to look like with your

11:10 organization. And when I say that with reps, it comes down to the numbers, right? Sales is a numbers game. you

11:17 know, have they hit sales quotas? Have they grown their territory? How much have they grown their territory? Have they grown their territory over prior

11:26 year? Right? If profitability is important, have they actually been in a sales role where they've had to be able to manage margin with a client?

11:36 Those are really critical things. So, it gets down when you think about how you run your business and the kind of sales metrics that you're looking at. Those

11:44 are the exact sales same sales metrics I would be looking at for a candidate that I'm looking at. And have they been managed and have they been held

11:53 accountable to those same kind of uh metrics in previous jobs. That is going to be the indicator of whether or not they're going to do really well for you,

12:00 right? And oftentimes that gets really looked over. A sales rep on resumeé can say all sorts of really cool stuff about

12:08 a client and what they've done here and there with a client. To me, it comes down to a couple really key bullet points. It's all about have they

12:17 actually grown territories? Have they hit quotas? It's all those same really important metrics of how a small business owner is managing their business anyway, right?

12:26 And so, um, those are going to be the indicators that you really want to look for. So hiring somebody with sales skills and capabilities

12:33 that has a past performance of success is the best hire you can make and not

12:41 necessarily someone that comes in with your industry knowledge. You can teach that knowledge as a business owner

12:48 because that's knowledge you have. You cannot teach sales skills because that's not what you do and that's not your expertise. So you got to think about

12:57 what can you teach versus what you need them to come in to know. That is also really huge when you're thinking about how to hire and it's about your

13:05 onboarding, right? And so you know again is what can you teach them and that they can learn through time because you've

13:14 got that expertise and that's not a heavy lift for you as a business owner as compared to you know gosh, you know,

13:22 I need to know how to sell but I don't know how to sell. I don't I don't know where to get them sales training, you know, and this is this is kind of really what you need to these are the things

13:29 that I would really encourage a business owner to do.

13:33 Yeah. Um makes a ton of sense. As you talking through, you kind of walked through like how do I look at the resume into like what are the questions I ask?

13:42 um just to get real strong like definitions or at least you know a little bit more direct like definitions on it. You know what's reasonable to

13:49 expect to find in a resume to give you key indicators and then what then becomes clearly stuff you have to be ready to ask during the interview to

13:57 then really bucket those two things because you know I I caught where I was going with it but I'd be really curious where you're like okay what can I truly

14:04 expect to get out of the resume and then what do I need to then table to that first you know phone call or that first you know interview with them. Yeah. Uh, no, that's great. All right.

14:12 So, if I was the person managing the interview process and I go into um whatever system you're using to

14:21 recruit your candidates and I look at the resumeumés, uh, I immediately will reject, no

14:28 kidding, every resume that comes in doesn't have a number tied to exactly how their performance was in past jobs as a sales rep. Mhm.

14:36 I just discount it because number one, if they're um coming to you for a sales job and they're not thinking numbers and

14:45 performance and outcomes and it's not reflected in the resume, then it doesn't matter what questions you ask. That's how they're presenting

14:53 themselves, which tells me they're not looking at the job the way that I need my candidate or my ideal hire to look at that job. I completely discount it and I

15:02 reject them. I don't even talk to them, right? So, it's it's a lot. You could do a lot in the screening, right? Um, in

15:09 the screening of the resume, if you're looking at past job performances and their first one or two bullets under

15:15 each of those jobs is, you know, I my sales number grew X. I hit sales quotas

15:23 X of so many years, you know, and you feel like, oh, wow, that's really great.

15:27 You know, I grew my uh my revenue x times over prior year. I closed x amount

15:34 of clients in this amount of time, right? Those things matter to me. Then I'm like, okay, this is great. Right?

15:41 Because they're thinking numbers because that's what sales is. And they're thinking outcomes because that's how you drive accountability to get the

15:49 discipline and the rigor to get the results that you need. And then I use that to then structure my questions. And

15:56 most oftent times I'm asking them about how they got to the number. tell me what made them successful, right? And and

16:05 understanding context as to sort of where they started to where they ended and understanding and listening to that

16:12 story tells you a lot about how real those numbers are to you, right?

16:17 And so, um, so those become really important, right? And and then you're trying to relay that back to what do I

16:24 need in my job in this job description I posted? What are those three or four metrics that I know I'm going to be

16:31 holding them accountable to? And then maybe structure some questions that sort of tie back to that that makes you feel good that they understand how you're

16:40 going to be measuring the rap. And then trying to link that back into something that they've done that's very similar,

16:48 right? so that you can start to get a good feeling for their ability to, you

16:55 know, work in an environment to be measured the way that you're going to measure them, if that makes sense, right? Yeah.

17:03 So, um, so screening is really important. Don't waste your time on reps that aren't talking numbers. Um, and

17:10 hold your, you know, your your interviews for those people that represent themselves on the paper that best match what you want, right? Um and

17:18 and that's the way that I go. And honestly with AI today, it's really nice. It's sort of helps people who may

17:27 feel less um credible in the interviewing process.

17:31 You know, I put job descriptions into Claude. I put the resumes into Claude.

17:37 And then I say, "Based off of the job description and what you know is to be true about this job, tell me the best

17:44 five questions I need to ask this candidate based off of their resume." And it really kind of helps to guide you on that. Yeah.

17:51 So that um you know, you can and and you can also tell Claude and match is the most important. So focus on the numbers

17:58 and the performance, right? And then that way you feel like you're being very consistent with every single candidate that comes through and focusing on those

18:07 certain things. It kind of it's sort of makes it a little easier. Um you know so that you're you feel like that you're being fair and equitable across every

18:15 candidate that comes across you know your interview screen.

18:18 Yeah. And so once you find that those ideal hires, one or three or 10 or 11, um, and and stop me if I'm skipping

18:27 ahead too far, but then once you find them and you brought them in the door, you know, what are some key things that you're watching in their their rampant period as they're getting, you know,

18:36 used to working in the company, as they're getting knowledgeable about what you're doing, as they're putting their motions into place, you what are you keeping an eye on?

18:43 Yeah. Um, so hopefully during the interview process you one of those interviews is you're weeding out for

18:51 culture fit. I always say that because one of the things I always keep an eye on is always fit fit in the

18:57 organization. You know, um, if they're coachable and if they're fitting in your culture, they may not do everything that

19:05 you want correctly at the beginning, but if they're coachable, you can get them there, right? So those things are really

19:13 really important in the first 90 days, right? Um I also look to um and during

19:20 the interview process I really drill down hard into how they think about what

19:28 their first 90 days needs to look like right now. Reality is is they don't really know your products yet. and you already know in your mind as part of

19:36 your onboarding as a small business owner what that first 90 days needs to look like and if you don't you need

19:43 that's really important right every person needs structure and if you leave it to the guise of the new person that's

19:50 coming in and you have these expectations but you're giving them this level of direction you're never they're

19:57 never going to meet your expectations so that onboarding period is critical you should have absolutely know what that first 90 days needs to look like.

20:07 Um, but I always like to challenge the reps to think about that too because in their mind they probably have a pattern.

20:13 Maybe things that have gone well before in past uh jobs they've had that have worked well for them. And so it starts

20:21 to say a lot about how they think. And in the interview process, I like to understand that. I like to understand how are they thinking about the first 90

20:29 days? what do they feel is really really important and if and what you're hearing aligns with what you think is you know

20:38 it's going to be a really really good fit right so you're trying to take as much of the risk out as you possibly can

20:45 before you bring them on board um because it's expensive to bring them on board right you know it's your time um

20:53 it's your company it's your revenue right um so I'm really looking back to are they who they said they were during

21:02 the interview process. And I'm being really really astute to that in the first 90 days, right? I think high high touch in the

21:10 first 90 days is super important because the higher you touch, the more they're hearing from you as a business owner or a leader, the more they understand um you know what the expectations are.

21:22 but you're also having a good back and forth working um relationship because you're also really now starting to

21:30 understand their personality and how you need to lead them and how they want to be led, right?

21:36 And um and that's going to tell you a lot about probably what those next, you know, six months are going to look like with them. You know, is it are you

21:45 already feeling taxied by it because this doesn't feel easy? It's probably not good. you know, then you have to kind of go back and go, okay, why isn't

21:54 it like that? Is it because who they said they were in the interview process is not really who I'm seeing showing up today? You know, that's that's important

22:02 because I can tell you this, especially in sales. However, the the new rep is showing up to you as a business leader as exactly how they're going to show up to your clients.

22:12 Yeah.

22:13 And um and that's that's what I'm already thinking. I always say it's better to cut your losses early than to

22:22 let it go out and feeling guilty that you didn't give them a chance. That's why the rigor in those first 90 days is

22:29 important. And are they hitting those marks and those metrics of what you're expecting in the first 90 days? And if they're not, then you can like you can

22:38 cut your losses early and you can just say, you know, I don't think this is working out. And you know, um, it's almost taking a little page from the

22:47 corporate world where you kind of really want to sort of document, you know, what it is that they're doing and what you don't like to do. So that

22:55 level of communication is important. And I'm not trying to add administrative tasks here. But as a business owner, having super clarity of your

23:03 expectations in the first 90 days and you communicating that to them and then you holding them accountable to them will allow you to, you know, really

23:12 avoid, you know, paying six months, one year out when, you know, you needed them to sell 100,000, but they only came in

23:20 and they sold 10,000, you know. Um, so those first 90 days are your leading indicators. Think about it like in selling. You know, you're always looking

23:28 at your clients and what are those leading indicators? Those first 90 days are absolutely the leading indicator.

23:34 And you can make some decisions then if you need to to move it forward, you know, and invest your time in the person that can't is coachable, right? And that

23:42 does fit your culture better and that is following up and doing all the things that you've asked them to do, you know, and is showing up in a way that you

23:51 would be proud of for someone that is interacting with your clients.

23:56 Yeah, I I really like the idea of uh trying to align expectations of what their first 90 days are and seeing that

24:04 before. I've I've been hired. I've hired before. I've never had that experience where it was like I've had the plans in place. I've worked the plans. We made

24:12 sure that they were doing it, you know, been monitoring, making sure, but aligning at the beginning before we even get into that process and getting their idea of what it looks like. I mean,

24:21 that's it makes perfect sense. like I'm kind of surprised that I've never seen anyone do it before.

24:26 Um I'm definitely still in that best practice because why wouldn't you do it that way? That's right. That's right.

24:33 And from that, I mean, are you going everything from like, hey, within the first 90 days, I expect, you know, this amount of, you know, outreach touches and I expect this amount of first

24:41 meetings and I expect you to know the product this well by this amount of time.

24:46 And then obviously, like if you're seeing all the good things and maybe you don't get all the first meetings, but they're hitting all their touches. Okay.

24:53 Well, over the next 90 days, we'll still probably see the results because sales can be clumpy. Yeah. No, that's you're exactly right.

25:01 So, part of that first 90 days are what are those activities?

25:06 Let me take a step back real quick. All right. If you're bringing someone in where there's not an existing amount of business and there's an existing

25:14 pipeline that they're taking over, right? Um there's, you know, there's a ramp up period, right? Even if they are

25:22 taking over a pipeline, there's still a ramp up period and those are all activity based. So having real clarity on the activities you want them doing

25:32 every week, right? What is the ultimate goal of where you would like them to be after that first 90 days? And then and

25:39 then how do those activities shift um if they shift at all in the next like in in the second 30 days. So that would

25:48 be in the in the 60-day time frame. And then and then that next rung of getting into 90 days and it might look something

25:55 like in the first 30 days every week I want you to make five touch points to new leads coming in. I want you to make

26:04 five cold calls to leads that you've gone out and generated on your own. I want you to follow up with the top 10 clients, you know, to check in on them.

26:15 And then maybe the next one is I want you to go back and this is where you know some of your homework comes into play. I want you to go back to clients

26:24 we lost over the last five years and I want you to touch five of those clients we lost and engage right four things five five and five right

26:33 that's 20 activities for the first week every week for the first 30 days right and they're logging them into your CRM

26:41 right and each week you're having a one-on-one meeting with your rep because you it's hight touch you might be doing

26:48 it more often depending you know in your business Um, and you're you're saying,

26:54 "Okay, so how did these four different touches go with the five clients in each one?" And you're literally talking about

27:02 them and you're understanding what's moved forward and what's not. That's building your pipeline, right? Not all 20 touches is going to

27:10 generate, you know, 20 leads in your pipeline, but maybe you're a 20 or 25% and maybe there's some really big ones

27:17 in there, right? but they're doing the work and you're having a great conversation with your rep or maybe you're not or maybe you're hearing

27:24 things of why maybe they're not being successful and more leads generating but they're doing the work. That's the coaching piece. That's the that's the

27:33 pivots you're going to make in coaching them on other things they need to be doing differently. How are they engaging? What are they saying? You

27:40 know, what are those scripts that they're using? Right?

27:43 um what are some of the questions and the challenges that are coming back from the rep that you can coach them on? You know, this gets into what I call the

27:51 subject matter expertise of like, you know, the product you're selling or the context of your industry, right? But yes, that's exactly what you're doing.

28:01 It's activity management for the ramp up, right?

28:05 um and how they're engaging and and then hopefully at certain point in time. Some reps do this faster than others is you can kind of let them loose a little bit.

28:15 The expectations of the activities that you want them to do doesn't change, right? Uh but maybe they're maybe they're overachieving.

28:25 Maybe they're hitting more than those 20 touch points you want and they're hitting 30, which is great, right? And they're a go-getter because they have

28:33 drive. Right. So drive is a really big one I always like to see in sales reps. What are you always doing to do more?

28:39 Right. Um a sales rep that doesn't have drive is not a sales rep. Yeah.

28:45 You know what I mean? I don't know what they are, but they're definitely not in sales. You know, sales is a highly driven profession.

28:52 And so um hiring to drive is really important. That's just one of those attributes that I always put on the top

28:58 of my list, right? But um but yeah, activities is very important in the ramp up phase.

29:04 Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know if this is being too cute, but like would you even consider putting like like during that initial conversation or like

29:12 you're doing the last of the screening process, maybe underell how much you like say like, all right, maybe I want them to say 50 activities a week. I'll

29:20 say 25 for the first week. And if a rep tells me 25 is not enough, I want to do 50. like we use that or is that just being a little too like cute on trying

29:28 to figure out who might has maybe a higher drive and more ambition?

29:33 Yeah, I would say I think you need to make it realistic. Yeah. You know, because it's a learning curve.

29:39 They're also learning the company, they're learning the products, they're doing research, you know, you know what I'm saying? Um, and they're looking up companies.

29:48 They're doing all the things to get ready for the conversation. I think that's very real and you can't discount the time that it takes for them to do

29:56 that, right? They could also be still doing some training on your products.

29:59 So, there could be other responsibilities that are outside of what I call the the client engagement activities. Um, so just because you have

30:08 those 20 or 25 that you earmark, those are just client engagements. There could be other things in that first 30 days that you're having them to do. So, I would just sort of

30:16 like understand that. And um and if you don't know if 25 is the right number, right, you start off with 25 in the

30:24 first week and you see how much they've been able to accomplish. And if they couldn't accomplish it all, then you just wouldn't really want to understand why. Yeah.

30:32 Then I think you as a good leader, you can determine, you know, is that logical? Is that legitimate? You know, that doesn't

30:40 really make sense to me, you know, or wow, they blew it out of the water. I need to like for my next hire, I need to raise the bar up on the activities

30:48 because this rep has indicated that, you know, there's capacity to do a lot more, right?

30:55 Um hopefully if it's not your first hire, right, you've got other sales reps to look back to to kind of help set what

31:04 those activity levels need to be and what's realistic for your business, right? So, I think it really kind of depends if you've had reps before or if

31:13 this is your first new hire and how you would approach it. You know, it could be a learning curve for you as well. And maybe that's when you're really making

31:22 sure you're hiring the right rep. And you know, I think it's okay to say to the rep, "Look, we're going to start here, you know, and maybe in full disclosure,

31:30 um, I don't know if this is the right number, but I'm telling you based off of how our leads come in and what our pipelines look like in the past, this is

31:39 about the level of activity that we would expect to see. And so, you know, let's just see what the first week looks like. Let's talk about the challenges.

31:48 Let's talk about what more you can do." And then you take it week to week, right? I think that's just a good working relationship with anybody that you have and and as a business owner, I

31:56 think the reps probably appreciate that too because they feel like they've got a little voice in it and something that they can maybe control, right?

32:05 Yeah. So, I want to be respectful of your time because we we all half an hour over it, but I have two more questions for you if you don't mind. Cool. Okay.

32:12 So, at the very beginning of this, uh we talked about, you know, the people they're helping out, they decided to uh kind of rebuild their team based on what they were seeing. What was the catalyst

32:21 that uh inspired they're like, "Hey, we need to make a change and now we need to, you know, you do this rebuilding process."

32:29 Yeah. Um they had a lot of account managers and they really needed to shift into a hunter role. uh they also

32:37 specifically needed to shift into a hunter role and hire people in this case

32:44 because it was a highly clinical device um with people who really um understood

32:51 that environment and that could bring a rolodex with them right it was really specific in this in this case right now

32:59 for them it's healthcare and and if you've got any healthcare clients out there anyone in healthcare that's listening to this I I they're going to appreciate it. You know, when

33:08 reimbursement changes, oftentimes that is absolutely outside of the control of the business owner, right? And you're

33:15 having to really pivot your company, sometimes pivot your tra str strategy, sometimes pivot your products and even your ideal client profile based off of

33:23 that, right? This particular company found themselves in that position. And so when I was brought in to work with

33:31 him um in this transition, you know, we had a lot of great conversations around

33:38 who the ideal client profile was for the products that they were going to be targeting because they were expanding their product portfolio. And then we

33:47 backed into okay, what kind of rep do we need to really sell this and sell this effectively? That was really different than what they had in the past. So, we

33:56 started off honestly understanding the client and what the client's needs were and like the pain points of like what you

34:03 were solving for, but having clarity on the type of client and then we said, "Okay, so what kind of rep is going to be the most successful getting into that

34:11 client and to being able to move the number the way that we needed to move in a short amount of time, right?" Um, and so it was really specific, but that was

34:20 sort of the thought process that we went through.

34:22 Nice. I'm very outside in market shifted. How does that change our client? How does that change who need to be internally? Love that.

34:31 Abs. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And but you know these are things that happens with small businesses, right?

34:36 You know, it doesn't always go the way that we have planned and you can only control what you can control, right? And

34:43 so, um, but being able to see it and recognize it and pivot. Otherwise, had he stayed the course and kept the same kind of team and reps on in place.

34:55 Yep.

34:56 You would be really, really struggling right now, right? You know, because those were not the kinds of reps that he

35:04 needed to be able to be effective in developing his revenue.

35:09 Now, does that mean he goes and lays off a bunch of people? No. you know, I mean, in his mind, he found really great roles and capacities for all those people that were on his team, which is really great.

35:20 So, you know, again, as a business leader, we think through what is the impact to the overall organization, you know, how does that how does that

35:27 fit what we're doing now? If you've got great people that have worked for you and they've been loyal to you, you always want to find a place for them,

35:35 you know, even if it even if it doesn't fit in the job description that your now company requires you to have, right, to

35:42 be able to move the revenue. So, but yeah, it was that was sort of the situation with this particular client.

35:49 So, for anyone listening in, what is like the one big takeaway, the big summary? What would you want somebody to walk away with this and make sure, hey,

35:56 I got to apply this to my business? Uh, from what you've said today, yeah, I would say if you are a small

36:03 business owner and you're hiring a rep for the first time, um, don't

36:11 hire someone that has your skill sets and and your knowledge around your products. Go out and hire someone that doesn't. go out, hire the real

36:18 saleserson

36:20 [clears throat]

36:20 so that you can teach them the products because that's what you're really good at. No one's going to be better than that than you. You know, you need them to be great at selling and having, you

36:29 know, had past history and being very successful in sales, which is not what you as a business owner are really good

36:36 at. That's my that's my biggest takeaway is to hire to the sales skills and not necessarily to the product and to the

36:43 vertical necessarily. Um, I I think you'll find yourself to be so much more successful uh in your first year than

36:50 what I've seen with other with other clients in the past. Yeah, love it. That's a great takeaway.

36:56 Nicole, thank you so much. So much so much good stuff in there. I'm going to have to relisten to this just to reabsorb everything, but yeah. No, I appreciate it. Sorry. Yeah,

37:04 hopefully I wasn't rambling on too much, but you know, there's so much to say about, you know, hiring and getting it right, you know. So, I like a lot. Thank you.

37:13 Yeah. Thank you so much.