Jim Dunn on Referral Introductions and Prospecting Fundamentals

Transcript

0:02 All right, Jim, uh, give me the negative

0:04 reverse on why everyone should just stop

0:06 listening to this episode right now.

0:08 >> Absolutely. Austin, here was the story.

0:10 Last week, you called me and you said,

0:12 "Hey, Jim, I want you to do a podcast.

0:15 You're you've been a Sandler trainer for

0:17 34 years." I said, "Well, what's the

0:19 topic?" You said, "The topic's going to

0:21 be on prospecting." I said, "Well, hey,

0:23 here's the deal. We may want to stop

0:25 right here because I probably don't have

0:28 what you're really looking for. If

0:30 you're looking for the 10 best ways of

0:32 using LinkedIn to prospect, if you're

0:35 thinking about how to use Zoom info to

0:38 get in front of more and more prospects

0:39 or all these kind of AI ideas of how to

0:42 do prospecting, I'm not your guy. Let me

0:45 tell you the story. I bought the I

0:48 bought a Sandler franchise from David

0:50 Sandler himself. He sat right across the

0:52 table from me and he said, "Here's what

0:54 I want you to do on prospecting.

0:57 You need to go out and develop five new

1:01 clients, service the living daylights

1:04 out of them, and ask for referral

1:07 introductions."

1:09 So, Austin, I may be disqualifying

1:11 myself right uh right up front, but that

1:14 has been uh my prospecting model for 34

1:19 years now. we all have to make our

1:21 10,000 cold calls. I did that. The hard

1:24 part is getting the five clients. So, I

1:28 said, if you want to talk on from there

1:30 on how to do that, how to get good

1:31 introductions, how to use some of the

1:33 Sandler techniques, great. We can talk

1:35 about that. But if you're looking for

1:37 the latest and greatest on prospecting

1:39 ideas and what's new in the market, I'm

1:42 not your guy. So, maybe we need to stop

1:44 right here and there.

1:46 >> Yeah. And my reaction to that is I

1:49 actually think that the latest and

1:50 greatest is pushing everything back to

1:52 the fundamentals and back to what you're

1:54 talking about because it's it's creating

1:57 so much information and so much noise

2:00 that you have to get back to it. And

2:01 I've talked to quite a few folks that

2:02 are saying getting back to the

2:04 fundamentals is really what's driving

2:06 their business forward. And the latest

2:08 greatest is no longer doing that. Um, so

2:11 you know, you mentioned in that, you

2:13 know, opening line, uh, you still got to

2:15 do your 10,000 cold calls. Is that your

2:17 10,000 to get those first five? Is that

2:19 the step that you take? Yeah. Tell me a

2:21 little bit more about what that looks

2:23 like to get those first five.

2:25 >> So, we all have to work a marketing

2:27 program. We all need to have a plan. And

2:29 certainly, I had that in place and many

2:31 of your listeners have that in in uh in

2:33 in place, too. So part of the 10,000

2:36 cold calls was just picking up the phone

2:40 uh and calling people, having a

2:42 marketing plan to where yes, there was

2:44 an ideal prospect that I was going

2:47 after. Uh and so whether it be driving

2:49 down the highway and and looking at a a

2:53 vehicle with a number that might be a

2:55 good fit, whether it be a manufacturer

2:57 or somebody else, anybody that I could

2:59 call uh was what I wanted to do. you

3:02 have a mailing list and uh that's all

3:05 part of that Sandler help because of the

3:07 no pressure prospecting call. We can

3:10 talk about that a little bit further.

3:12 >> So the idea is how to get those five

3:15 clients. Many of the listeners that

3:18 you're going to have already have those

3:20 five customers or those five clients,

3:22 but they're still spending a lot of time

3:26 on new ideas uh for prospecting. Or the

3:30 other trap may be that you've got

3:32 customers and uh that that part of your

3:36 behavior needs to be I need to go after

3:38 new clients. I have a good base, but

3:42 what's my what's my strategy for going

3:45 after new clients? And then that is the

3:48 idea of servicing [snorts] your clients

3:51 number one, adding the most value that

3:53 you can and asking for introductions.

3:56 >> Yeah.

3:56 >> And so that's the key. And a lot of

3:58 people are really shy about asking for

4:01 introductions. They'll do the work uh

4:03 but for whatever reason they don't know

4:05 how to ask. They may be a little bit

4:07 embarrassed of asking in the first

4:10 place, maybe feeling a little bit needy.

4:12 So that might be part of what we discuss

4:15 here a little bit later on too. There's

4:16 a right way of asking for introductions,

4:20 but that you know that hard part is you

4:22 either don't have those five customers.

4:25 Well, guess what? you got to make the

4:26 10,000 or you have them, but part of

4:30 your behavior needs to be how do I get

4:33 really great introductions from my

4:36 current customers and clients?

4:38 >> Yeah. Now, for clarity sake, would you

4:40 say to somebody continue to make your

4:43 cold calls, but you cannot ignore the

4:46 fact that you should be making those

4:47 referrals first? That's their

4:49 foundation. You need to be asking for

4:50 those introductions. Or would you say,

4:53 hey, actually just do the introductions

4:55 and if you happen to have a time to pick

4:56 up the phone, you're willing to go for

4:58 it.

5:00 >> I'd say go for it. I'd say, you know,

5:02 whether you have one customer, even if

5:04 you have one customer, which is probably

5:06 not the case, many people listening are

5:08 going to have more than that. The idea

5:10 is is that we need to make that as part

5:12 of our behavior. Uh the point of that of

5:14 the matter is if everybody would just

5:16 draw a simple triangle in Sandler. We

5:19 call this the success triangle. It's

5:22 made up of three points. Up at the top

5:24 is attitude mindset which means that I

5:27 have to have law of abundance versus law

5:30 of scarcity. There is plenty out there.

5:33 Uh and so making the cold calls is not

5:37 easy. So we need to have a structure

5:40 technique behind that. But our mindset

5:42 needs to be there's always somebody out

5:44 there who has pain. Uh and you calling

5:49 them could be a good thing. So the

5:52 behavior part is I need to make enough

5:54 of those. So that's why we need to have

5:57 a cookbook. We need to have a playbook.

5:59 We need to have a we need to monitor

6:02 those key performance indicators, those

6:05 KPIs. Am I doing enough behavior each

6:08 and every week? the outbound dials, the

6:11 outbound emails, holding myself

6:13 accountable for that. But what we really

6:16 need to be thinking about is two things,

6:18 Austin. We need to be thinking about

6:19 holding myself accountable. How many

6:22 meaningful conversations do I need to

6:24 have today or this week? And a

6:26 meaningful conversation is a

6:27 conversation with the decision maker,

6:29 not a gatekeeper. And that goal could be

6:33 three a day, four a day, whatever that

6:36 number is. You need to pick that. For

6:38 me, I want seven meaningful

6:40 conversations a week. Um, and then I

6:43 need to have a good concur conver

6:44 conversion factor. In other words, from

6:47 those meaningful conversations, how many

6:50 new opportunities, new appointments did

6:53 I get? So, we're bringing a lot of

6:55 things in there. Attitude, uh, mindset,

6:58 behavior is actually how I'm using my

7:01 time and structuring that technique,

7:03 what I say, what I do. How would you

7:05 define uh what is the or I guess what's

7:08 the minimum for a meaningful

7:09 conversation? Like how do I say I had 10

7:12 conversations but only seven were

7:14 meaningful? What difference between the

7:17 three and

7:18 >> were Yeah. So a meaningful conversation

7:21 is with a decision maker. They may be

7:24 part of a team. It's not really with a

7:26 gatekeeper. Gatekeeper that's not a

7:28 meaningful conversation. But if I get to

7:31 you because you're the CEO

7:34 and and I had a conversation with you

7:36 and we were able to have an appointment,

7:38 that's a double win. One, we had the

7:40 meaningful conversation. Two is we were

7:43 able to get the appointment. So a

7:45 meaningful conversation could be with

7:48 part of the decision-making team. Uh and

7:52 that's what we need to find out is what

7:54 does that decision process look like? So

7:57 the point of the matter is I need to

7:59 hold myself accountable to the minimum

8:03 daily requirement of action steps. So

8:07 you need to define what those are. When

8:10 I got into Sandler years ago, I was

8:12 asked you need to make 25 to 50 cold

8:15 calls a day. That's what it that's what

8:17 it that's what it took. You need to have

8:19 you need to be you need to have two new

8:22 meetings uh a day. So go to coffee

8:25 shops, go to restaurants. That's that's

8:28 really your behavior. So you need to

8:30 figure out in your world what does that

8:33 look like and you need to hold yourself

8:35 accountable to that because what happens

8:37 is success breeds uh kind of this uh

8:41 passivity. In other words, we start

8:44 closing some deals, but we're getting

8:46 away from that prospecting, whether it

8:50 be new opportunities with our current

8:52 customers or um expanding opportunities

8:57 with those current customers. So,

8:59 whatever your market looks like, whether

9:01 you're an account manager or whether

9:02 you're a hunter.

9:03 >> Yeah. So, so back to the get the five

9:07 first people, right? So, I've got my

9:09 five first clients. those are the

9:11 serviced I feel like hey they can't they

9:14 they've been really like complimentary

9:15 they're really happy

9:17 >> what are my app uh sorry actionable

9:20 steps uh that I can take to then start

9:24 activating that network to begin those

9:26 referrals

9:27 >> right I just read a great book actually

9:30 it's a book that came out in '09 uh

9:33 called the go-giver I highly recommend

9:35 that book to everybody is is that it's

9:38 all about how do buy create and add more

9:42 value that I'm getting paid for. Bob

9:45 Berg Bur is the author of it. Uh and

9:49 John David man both of them wrote the

9:51 book. Highly recommend it. It's a very

9:54 simple book as many book great books

9:56 are. So the idea is I how do I create

10:00 more and more value to my customer? In

10:02 Sandler, we have all these rules and

10:05 insights. And one of my favorites is

10:07 that you will lose more business over

10:10 stroke deprivation than a price

10:12 increase. And what that means is how

10:15 often am I reaching out to my current

10:17 customers? Maybe you helped them out

10:19 last week uh yet. This week they didn't

10:21 call you uh they didn't email you, but

10:23 you just want to make place a call. Hey

10:25 Austin, you know, we spoke last week. I

10:27 just want to make sure that what we did

10:29 really worked out well for you. That's

10:31 like putting a uh going to the bank and

10:34 making a deposit. I'm putting a deposit

10:36 into your account. That's really what

10:38 that rule means. So, am I adding more

10:41 value than I'm getting paid for? So,

10:44 then I can be asked to get referrals.

10:46 So, let me give you kind of a three-step

10:48 formula if I can to answer your

10:50 question. Three steps in a sense of uh

10:55 I'm adding value. I feel like I'm doing

10:57 that, Jim. Wow. Okay. So, so here the

11:00 here are the three steps. Step number

11:02 one, uh when you're with your when

11:05 you're with your client, uh is that how

11:08 are we doing? Austin, just want to, you

11:10 know, scale of 1 to 10, you know, how

11:12 are we doing? Um and now here's the

11:16 problem, team, everybody listening in,

11:18 the four-letter word that causes more

11:21 restaurants to go out of the out of

11:23 business is the four-letter word f i ne.

11:28 you're doing fine. If you go to a

11:31 restaurant and the and someone asks you,

11:34 "How was your meal tonight?" and you

11:36 say, "Fine." That is a guarantee that

11:38 restaurant's not going to last long.

11:40 Now, here's the problem. The problem is

11:43 you're going to ask that question. And

11:45 you're probably going to hear something

11:46 like, "Jim, you're doing great. You're

11:48 doing fine. You're doing okay." Now what

11:51 we need to know and in Sandler we really

11:54 teach how to ask that those second and

11:57 third level questions. So the second

12:00 question is hey Austin I appreciate the

12:02 fact that you said we're doing okay.

12:04 Really do. Hey you know we could always

12:06 do better. We could improve. Right. So I

12:10 need to ask you whether it be how we're

12:13 how we're invoicing what our customer

12:15 service is doing our quality control.

12:19 Hey, what could we do in the next 30 to

12:23 90 days that could better enhance our

12:26 experience with you? Now, that's going

12:29 to get them thinking and that and and

12:32 when would you rather know? The whole

12:34 idea is you would rather know right

12:37 away. So, let's go back real quick to

12:39 the restaurant analogy.

12:41 Well, you know, um my soup could have

12:43 been a little bit warmer. Here's what a

12:45 smart matraee does. Or the owner of that

12:47 restaurant. Hey, thanks for letting us

12:49 know that, Mr. Dunn. Here's here I tell

12:51 you what. Here's a certificate. When you

12:53 come back, you've got a free appetizer

12:56 on us. I'm going to come back to that

12:58 restaurant just because of that. And

13:01 oftent times restaurants don't ask that.

13:03 So, we have question number one.

13:05 Question number two on the table. And

13:07 finally, here's question number three.

13:08 Hey Austin, you know, thanks. Hey, could

13:11 I ask for your help? I mean, what's

13:13 somebody going to say? They're going to

13:15 say, 'Well, of course. Yeah, sure.

13:17 >> Yeah.

13:18 >> Who do you know? Who do you know that is

13:24 somebody that you play golf with? Who do

13:26 you know that is in your networking

13:29 group? Who do you know when you're a

13:31 manufacturing association? Who do you

13:34 know that is a vendor of yours? You know

13:36 what we do? who could who could use what

13:40 it is that we do

13:43 and people want to help you. They may

13:45 not give you a name right away, but

13:48 oftent times what happens is is that you

13:51 plant a seed with that.

13:54 >> So, who do you know now? And just a

13:57 really another quick followup with that.

14:00 >> Amateur salespeople get referred.

14:03 Professional salespeople get introduced.

14:06 So, someone was to say, if you were to

14:08 say to me, hey, you know, Jim, you need

14:11 to call Eric Zir. You know, Eric

14:13 probably could use what you have, what

14:15 I'm gonna say is, Austin, thanks. I

14:17 appreciate that. Eric's not going to

14:19 know who I am. Can I ask you a favor? Do

14:22 you mind making an introduction?

14:24 >> Yeah.

14:24 >> Could be by email. It could be by phone.

14:27 It could be, "Hey, we're in the same

14:29 city. Let's go out and have coffee.

14:31 Let's go out and have lunch. but could

14:34 you introduce me to Eric? Are you

14:38 comfortable with that? And that's what

14:40 professional salespeople do. They make

14:43 those connections and that's what's so

14:46 so important.

14:47 >> Yeah. So, basically the idea being ask

14:51 for who they might know. That plants the

14:53 seed and then you're then going to be

14:55 expected to do some more work, right?

14:57 Because you're not going to just say,

14:58 "Well, then they'll they'll keep this on

15:00 top of mind. they're going to come back

15:01 to a week and have been like, I thought

15:03 about every single person that I know

15:04 and here are the five. Uh they're

15:06 probably not going to do that. So,

15:07 what's what's the step that you take

15:09 after you've planted the seed to get the

15:11 uh the buy in on their behalf?

15:13 >> Out of those five, Austin, who do you

15:15 think would who do you think would be

15:17 most receptive to taking to taking that

15:20 call to to you making an introduction?

15:24 Would you be would you be does it nice

15:27 enough or does it make some sense or are

15:28 you are you comfortable making an

15:30 introduction? Now remember if you and I

15:33 are working together and I've added

15:35 value to you. See it all goes back to

15:36 that value conversation I think you'll

15:39 want to help me.

15:40 >> Yeah.

15:41 >> And see that's where the mindset comes

15:42 in. The mindset is people want to help.

15:45 The mindset is I need to brave to be

15:48 brave enough, gutsy enough to ask the

15:51 question of will you introduce me? Are

15:54 you comfortable making an introduction?

15:56 And it's like anything else, maybe you

15:58 are, maybe you're not. If you're not

16:00 comfortable and I don't sense you're

16:01 comfortable, the first thing I'm going

16:03 to do is, hey, let's not do this.

16:05 >> Let's not, you know, let's not Yeah,

16:07 let's not let's not let's not do let's

16:09 not do this.

16:10 >> So, uh, that's what that's what I'm

16:13 going to say. The idea is is that as a

16:15 as a customer, as a client, uh I think

16:19 most people want to help. And that's a

16:20 mindset of being receptive that people

16:24 want to help you.

16:26 >> Yeah. Well, you know, I've done that um

16:28 with somebody before and I said, you

16:30 know, we're we're just a little too

16:31 early in our engagement to to feel

16:34 comfortable making an introduction, but

16:35 I'll tell you what, like, let's talk in

16:37 a couple months. It was a perfectly fine

16:39 conversation. Like, it did not feel

16:41 awkward. That was that was politely said

16:44 no to it didn't it was like you know

16:45 what you're 100% right

16:47 >> you you need to feel a little bit more

16:49 comfortable I respect that we'll touch

16:51 base in a couple months if and if we can

16:53 continue to you know service like crazy

16:56 will have earned the right at that point

16:57 in time and I think

16:58 >> that's right

16:58 >> you know maybe for some folks it'll be a

17:01 couple months maybe for some people it

17:02 will be a year um but in my own personal

17:04 experience asking uh if that timing is

17:07 okay at that point really doesn't hurt

17:09 to do it as long as you start pushing

17:11 then it becomes awkward and doesn't feel

17:12 good. But after that, it's becomes

17:15 really easy. It's an easy conversation.

17:17 >> You make it part of your behavior. You

17:19 make it part of your belief. And again,

17:21 it goes back to to adding value. Here's

17:23 a great question for anybody to ask. If

17:25 somebody says that and I get that

17:27 earlier on in engagement, you know,

17:29 here's a the question that I like to ask

17:31 is Austin, let's say it's six months

17:33 from now and let's say this is the best

17:35 thing that you ever have done and you're

17:37 seeing great improvement

17:40 um with our working together and the

17:42 value that we've been able to offer you.

17:45 What what does that look like? Mhm.

17:49 >> And then all of a sudden someone starts

17:50 say, "Well, you've been able to do this,

17:52 you've been able to do this, you've been

17:53 able to do this." And then it's like,

17:55 "Well,

17:56 providing that that happens, are you

18:00 comfortable? Are you okay with me asking

18:02 if I'm hearing that from you, are you

18:04 okay with me asking for that

18:06 introduction?"

18:08 >> Yeah.

18:09 >> And of course, they're going to go,

18:10 "Yeah, absolutely. Sure."

18:13 Now, for those when you get that

18:15 introduction, when you had that person

18:17 say, "All right, I'm going to send an

18:18 email that connects the two of you, you

18:20 know, you set up some time with that

18:21 individual." Are you handling that

18:23 initial conversation the same as if you

18:25 had cold called, or are you adjusting

18:26 that initial conversation to be

18:28 different based on the uh the context?

18:31 >> Okay, this leads us into uh into

18:34 technique. Now, I can use the no in

18:38 Sandler. We have a great format for a no

18:41 pressure prospecting call

18:44 >> and it's six steps and the six steps are

18:47 number one pattern interrupt. Step

18:50 number two is a mini upfront contract.

18:53 Step number three is a place for your 30

18:56 second commercial. Step number four is

18:59 either get an appointment or it's really

19:02 not a fit. Step number five uh is to

19:06 close for that appointment and you know

19:08 and working the pain those two together

19:11 and lastly is to postell it. So it's a

19:14 beautiful setup. So it is the same. So

19:17 what it would sound like is let's say I

19:19 let's say you're the referral

19:20 introduction and um let's just say I'm

19:23 calling you and somebody else has made

19:25 the introduction for us. The first thing

19:28 I'm going to say is hey Austin this is

19:30 Jim Dunn. You probably didn't know I was

19:32 calling. My name probably doesn't even

19:35 sound familiar to you.

19:38 >> Pause. Now all of a sudden, oh yeah, Joe

19:42 Smith said that you would be calling

19:44 because the pattern interrupt is you

19:47 didn't know that I was going to call.

19:49 And it and and and you're using, you

19:52 know, you're a Sandler client, so you

19:54 know the power of that. Then I can go

19:56 into a little mini upfront contract. Hey

19:58 Austin, have you got a couple minutes?

20:00 Does it make sense for us to speak or am

20:02 I calling it a bad time? No, I got a

20:05 couple I got a couple of minutes. Knew

20:07 that you were speaking. And then I can

20:09 go on from there. I can then go into

20:11 hey, why I'm calling my 30 secondond

20:13 commercial. I can step four work the

20:16 pain a little bit. And then five, if it

20:19 makes sense for us to talk further,

20:21 maybe the two minutes isn't enough. And

20:23 then lastly, I do a little bit of post

20:25 cell. Hey, are you sure we got something

20:27 on the calendar? Are you sure? Are you

20:29 okay with doing that? You're not going

20:31 to ghost me? You're not going to be

20:33 there uh you know to take my call?

20:36 Whatever it may be, putting that in

20:37 there just so I make sure that it makes

20:40 sense for us to have that call again.

20:43 >> Yeah. And so for you, you get that

20:45 introduction, you have that

20:46 conversation. That's a good one. Are you

20:48 going back to the person who made it and

20:49 having a conversation with them to let

20:50 them know what happened or, you know,

20:52 are you not?

20:53 >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

20:54 because they want to know too. Look pe

20:57 sometimes

20:59 people are afraid of making that

21:04 introduction

21:05 right and that's why you have to add

21:09 value and more value isn't it funny

21:12 we're always really coming back to that

21:14 and that's why I like this book the go-

21:16 giver am I adding enough value to my

21:21 customer relationship and the product

21:24 and the service that I have am I putting

21:27 in that deposit always into them? And if

21:32 you are, I promise you, and everybody

21:34 listening, folks,

21:36 I am here to tell you, I have built a

21:39 multi-million dollar business on what

21:41 we're talking about right here.

21:42 >> Not on the latest and greatest in in

21:44 marketing and prospecting ideas. And I'm

21:47 not negating that. There's lots of good

21:49 ideas out there. I like to make things

21:52 simple. I like to make things easy and I

21:56 believe in the power of people wanting

22:00 to connect you to other people. And

22:03 here's what we know. Here are the facts.

22:05 Here's the data. Okay, the data says

22:08 this. Out of every 100 cold calls that

22:11 you make, one's going to lead to a new

22:14 client. out of every uh networking

22:17 meeting that you're attending, 15% of

22:20 your efforts are going to lead to a new

22:22 client. You ready for the math? I get a

22:25 good introduction. I have a 50%

22:29 probability of doing business with that

22:32 particular account. And better

22:35 >> if I have a physical, which means even

22:38 Zoom like this or Teams, if I have a

22:43 physical introduction,

22:45 85%

22:47 chance of doing business with that

22:49 person. So folks, work hard, work smart,

22:54 your choice.

22:56 >> I think you know what to do. Well, in

22:58 getting the introduction, let's be

22:59 honest, just from being a creature of

23:00 comfort, getting an introduction is a

23:02 lot more comfortable than picking up the

23:04 phone and calling a hundred strangers.

23:05 So, not only is it going to be, you

23:08 know, a lot more successful, probably

23:10 going to be a lot more comfortable once

23:12 you start, you know, earning the right

23:13 to ask for those referrals and, you

23:15 know, gaining trust to do it.

23:16 >> That's right. That's right. But you got

23:18 to earn your stripes. This the earning

23:20 the stripes as a professional

23:21 salesperson is you got to hear no. You

23:24 got to be hung up on. You got to have uh

23:27 people telling you uh that hey it won't

23:30 work. Call me back in 90 days. Call me

23:33 back in one year. It's through that

23:36 adversity that we get stronger and

23:39 stronger and stronger. So again that

23:42 goes back we pay the price to get those

23:45 five customers, those five clients but

23:49 afterwards I think we know what we need

23:51 to do.

23:52 >> Now would you change any of that? Like

23:55 let's say you have somebody that you

23:56 have known for a long time and you want

23:58 to do some networking with them. Would

24:00 you approach it the exact same way or

24:01 would you adjust that a little bit based

24:03 on then opting the client uh

24:06 relationship that you have with them?

24:08 >> Why would I want to adjust it when I

24:10 know it works?

24:11 >> Perfect.

24:11 >> If if it ain't if it if it ain't broke,

24:13 keep doing it, you know. So, uh that's

24:16 that it it works. So I like doing things

24:19 that uh at work you know it and it's not

24:22 that we you know adjustments are okay

24:25 but you know here again you know whether

24:27 you go to the gym you make adjustments

24:29 there with that that's okay but when you

24:32 have something that that we're speaking

24:34 about in business development and

24:37 creating new business and bringing on

24:40 new accounts keep it simple and it all

24:43 does come it all comes down to

24:46 relationship I don't care where AI is

24:49 going, folks. Here's what we know and

24:51 here's what we're going to know in the

24:52 future. People buy from those they like,

24:56 people buy from those they trust, and

24:59 people buy a product or a service that

25:02 is a best fit. So, when you have all

25:05 three of those together, the probability

25:07 of doing business is going to be great.

25:10 So, if there's a breakdown in one of

25:12 those three, that can negate the

25:15 relationship.

25:18 Jim, this has been great conversation.

25:19 We had an upfront contract that we'd

25:21 have our hard stop in place. Any final

25:24 thoughts before we end the episode?

25:27 >> Only final thoughts are that if you have

25:30 not done this, then begin to try. It's a

25:34 battle of the beliefs, everything that

25:36 we have. So, you may have a belief that

25:41 uh you're not worthy in a sense of

25:43 getting referrals or it won't work. You

25:46 can't tell me something won't work

25:48 unless you try it. Try this as a

25:51 philosophy for the next 30 days. And you

25:54 will be amazed at what starts to happen.

25:58 You won't get names right away from from

26:01 people, but you will come back and next

26:03 thing you know, you got a message on

26:05 your phone and your message is, "Hey,

26:07 had lunch with ABC Company. Your name

26:11 came up today. They're expecting your

26:14 call." What a great message that would

26:16 be. And with that, everybody, good

26:19 selling. Austin, thanks so much for

26:21 reaching out to me. Hope it was helpful.

26:23 >> Jim, this was fantastic. Really

26:25 appreciate you coming on and sharing

26:26 some wisdom with us.

26:28 Thank you.