Evan Polin on Networking, Referrals, and Warm Introductions

Transcript

0:02 We have another episode of Tailwind.

0:04 Today we are joined by Evan Poland.

0:06 Evan, tell us a little bit more about

0:08 yourself.

0:09 >> So, and Austin, thanks so much for

0:10 having me on the podcast.

0:12 >> Yeah, thank you for joining.

0:12 >> So, again, Evan with Poland Performance

0:15 Group. I provide sales training and

0:19 sales consulting for professionals who

0:23 just want to grow their book of

0:24 business. So, a lot of times people will

0:26 come to me, they're involved in

0:28 professional associations, doing all

0:30 kinds of prospecting and just having a

0:32 hard time getting meetings with their

0:35 ideal kinds of prospects. Other folks

0:37 will come to me, they've got lots of

0:39 meetings, but not enough of those

0:41 meetings or transitioning in a new

0:43 business or it just seems to take

0:45 forever to go from first conversation to

0:48 getting a decision one way or the other.

0:50 And then I also talk with a lot of other

0:52 folks who've been in business for a

0:54 while, do great work for their clients,

0:57 just not getting as many referrals and

0:59 introductions as they know they should

1:00 be getting, and they're not quite sure

1:02 why. And their business just isn't where

1:05 they'd like it to be. And they know they

1:06 need to do something different to get to

1:08 that next level, but they're not quite

1:10 sure what it is. And that's typically

1:12 where I'll come in and help is really

1:15 work with the team to get their sales

1:17 from wherever they are now to whatever

1:19 that next level looks like.

1:20 >> Nice. Yeah. Who doesn't want their sales

1:22 to that next level, right?

1:24 >> So, I I find most people are not making

1:27 more money than they can possibly spend.

1:29 They would absolutely love, especially

1:31 if they can do it by working smart

1:33 rather than just working twice as hard.

1:36 So, I'm working with my clients to help

1:38 them with what they can do to be more

1:39 efficient.

1:40 >> Yeah. And then and again I I I know that

1:43 there is great software out there that

1:45 can help them with this. But then to

1:46 make sure that there's somebody out

1:48 there, especially with the founder or

1:50 the business owner, holding them

1:52 accountable

1:53 >> to do those sales activity that they

1:54 know they should be doing, but for

1:56 whatever reason, they're kind of getting

1:58 in their own way and continuing to put

2:00 off and put off and put off that sales

2:02 activity that they know they need to do

2:04 to get the results they want to get.

2:06 Well, especially as the the owner or the

2:08 founder, you know, having

2:10 accountability, getting that outside

2:12 person to come in and provide that

2:14 because really at the end of the day, if

2:16 you're the founder, the owner, you are

2:17 the person that holds everyone

2:18 accountable. So, I got to

2:21 >> You're not going to the people under you

2:22 and going, "Hey, geez, I'm not doing

2:24 what I'm supposed to be doing to make

2:26 the company successful. Can you guys

2:27 help me with that?" That I wouldn't

2:30 recommend that founders do that and you

2:32 know, typically not appropriate. So

2:34 that's where an outside coach, an

2:36 outside consultant like me can come in

2:38 uh to really help them to make sure

2:40 they're doing those things they know

2:41 they should be doing.

2:42 >> Yeah. So one of the things that you

2:44 mentioned and what you help with is the

2:46 uh the referrals and leveraging your

2:48 network and we were talking a little bit

2:49 about that and you know definitely

2:51 piqued my interest. Tell me a little bit

2:54 more about that that problem that you're

2:56 helping them solve.

2:57 >> Sure. I find most people

3:01 make things harder on themselves and

3:04 there's all kinds of untapped potential

3:07 that people just aren't looking at to

3:10 help them more easily get in front of

3:13 more of their ideal kinds of prospects

3:15 and clients. So, ju just a little bit

3:17 about my background. I am very much your

3:20 non-traditional salesperson and sales

3:23 adviser. I've got a social work degree.

3:26 Um, I was doing counseling. I was

3:28 working for a large managed care company

3:30 on on their EAP hotline.

3:34 Started working uh with my parents who

3:37 had a sales training business. Did that

3:40 for 19 years. Left that, took a break,

3:43 went to work for a client, realized I

3:46 was a much better entrepreneur than I

3:48 was an employee. So, uh, exactly four

3:52 years ago, I went back out and started

3:55 my own consulting firm. And there's a

3:57 couple options I could have done. I

3:59 could have just started banging the

4:01 phones, putting together email

4:03 campaigns, and reaching out that way.

4:06 But what I did is I looked at my network

4:10 and I said, "Hey, I've been around for a

4:13 long time. I've developed a lot of

4:16 relationships. I've got a decent

4:18 reputation.

4:19 Let's see what I can do with that first.

4:22 >> So, I myself did an exercise that I take

4:26 all of my clients through. I went to

4:29 like my LinkedIn,

4:31 downloaded all of my LinkedIn

4:32 connections into an Excel spreadsheet,

4:36 went through and kind of graded who were

4:38 my top contacts, who were my mid-tier

4:40 contacts, who were the names that I

4:43 didn't even recognize, and I had no idea

4:45 how I was connected to them on LinkedIn.

4:47 >> Yeah. And then I systematically started

4:50 going through the people that I knew,

4:52 not to beg them for business, but to

4:55 share with them what I was up to, to ask

4:58 for their advice, to ask based on what I

5:01 was sharing with them if there's anybody

5:03 who they knew.

5:04 >> That might be good for me to talk to

5:07 with the people who I knew really well.

5:10 I knew how to utilize Sales Navigator,

5:13 go through all of their LinkedIn

5:14 connections. I kind of had a list of 15,

5:16 20 people they were connected to that on

5:18 the surface looked like they could

5:20 potentially be good people for me to

5:21 talk to. In 3 months, I went from not

5:26 having my first client yet to being 75%

5:29 to capacity.

5:31 >> Nice.

5:31 >> Strictly through leveraging my network.

5:34 Some people raised their hands and

5:36 became clients. Many people said, "Geez,

5:39 you know, the really interesting what

5:41 you're doing. here's a couple people I

5:43 know that you should reach out to um who

5:45 I think might be good for you to talk

5:47 to. And with that and nothing else again

5:51 went from literally zero

5:54 >> to 75% to capacity in 3 months.

5:57 >> Yeah.

5:58 >> And a lot of people just don't look at

6:01 okay who were my former clients, who

6:05 were my former colleagues, who did I go

6:08 to school with, who should I be reaching

6:10 out to?

6:12 and they miss a lot of that lowhanging

6:15 fruit because when we reach out that

6:17 way, people are more likely to get back

6:20 to you than strictly doing cold

6:22 outreach.

6:24 The statistics show you're about three

6:28 times more likely to actually turn a

6:30 conversation into a deal

6:33 than a cold outreach.

6:35 >> Mhm. So, but too frequently people are

6:38 just like, "Okay, well, let let me just

6:40 start calling the world versus again

6:43 looking to see what they can do first

6:46 >> to leverage their networks." So, that's

6:49 the first thing I typically work on with

6:51 my clients and then we'll look at other

6:54 professional associations networks, you

6:57 know, networking, building out

6:59 campaigns, doing the cold calling, doing

7:01 those other kinds of things. But if we

7:04 can combine that cold outreach to people

7:06 who are outside of our circle with

7:09 proactively reaching out to people who

7:12 know us, like us, maybe have had a good

7:14 experience with us, that is the quickest

7:16 way to go out and develop the kind of

7:19 business that you want to develop.

7:22 >> Yeah. So, I know this was a couple years

7:24 ago, um, but do you recall how many

7:26 people were in your LinkedIn network

7:28 that you had to sort through?

7:30 >> Sure. So I probably had 16,700 people to

7:34 sort through.

7:35 >> Yeah.

7:36 >> Out of that 16 to700,

7:39 probably 1,400 were people that I didn't

7:42 think that there was much need to

7:44 individually reach out to.

7:46 >> Yeah. I put together a couple of generic

7:48 messages, but of that of the other 300,

7:52 there were like 25 to 40 that I thought

7:56 were super good, super contact, would

7:58 get back to me within a week of me

7:59 reaching out.

8:02 And then another 300 or so that I

8:04 thought, hey, they would help me if I

8:06 could. They'll probably get back to me,

8:08 but it'll probably take a little while

8:10 for them to get back to me. or they'll

8:12 get right back to me, but they're not

8:14 really talking to my ideal kind of

8:16 clients on a regular basis. But you

8:18 never know who somebody went to school

8:20 with, who their neighbors are, those

8:22 kinds of things. Um, and what I did is I

8:24 set a goal for myself. How many people a

8:27 week do I want to reach out to?

8:29 >> Mhm.

8:30 >> And then knowing that with timing and

8:32 people not getting back, not everybody's

8:34 going to get back to me. So, how many

8:35 people do I want to reach out to? How

8:37 many conversations per week is my goal?

8:41 Mhm.

8:42 >> And that's how I started. And I flushed

8:45 out the spreadsheet with all of the

8:46 contacts. I cleaned up the spreadsheet.

8:48 I added columns for when I reached out

8:51 to somebody for what the result of that

8:53 outreach was. Uh quite frankly, it was

8:56 before I got my CRM up and running. So,

8:58 I was using a simple Excel spreadsheet

9:00 to do it.

9:01 >> But I was tracking it. I was color

9:03 coding it so I could see who I reached

9:05 out to, which people, hey, it was great

9:08 to reconnect. No need to ever reach out

9:09 again. that that's perfectly fine. Which

9:12 ones either were prospects for me or

9:14 were good referral sources and just

9:18 keeping it simple.

9:20 >> Yeah.

9:21 >> But really going through and it was a

9:24 great way to reconnect with a lot of

9:25 people. I've got to tell you, it was a

9:27 heck of a lot more fun than pure cold

9:30 outreach talking to people that I

9:32 already knew, hadn't talked to in a

9:34 while.

9:34 >> Oh yeah.

9:35 >> And the results speak for themselves.

9:37 >> Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say I mean

9:38 1,500,600 people to look through that

9:41 sounds like this huge gargantuan task.

9:43 Maybe not so much fun to like kind of go

9:45 line by line, but you can't lie. Like

9:48 the the results don't lie. And if anyone

9:51 if you sat down and go, okay, do you

9:53 want your business to be successful in

9:55 three months? It can, but you got to do

9:57 a little bit of manual labor,

9:59 >> right?

9:59 >> It's a it's a trade. That's

10:01 >> and do you want to make 200 called

10:03 outreaches

10:04 >> to get three meetings or would you

10:07 rather do a little bit of you know

10:08 research up front to two to get to do 10

10:12 outreaches to get five people who get

10:15 back to you to get two or three or four

10:17 who are either going to raise their hand

10:19 or be willing to make referrals for you.

10:21 >> And quite frankly, it's not a lot of

10:24 heavy lifting. If you in five seconds

10:27 can't remember how you know the person,

10:29 they're probably in the bottom category,

10:32 >> right?

10:32 >> And you want to reach out to people in

10:34 that middle category. One of my best

10:36 referral sources right now was somebody

10:38 I was on the borderline with. I was

10:40 like, "Yeah, you know what? Let let me

10:42 reach out. You know, I haven't talked to

10:43 him in a long time." That person over

10:46 the course of four years has referred me

10:49 14 or 15 opportunities, six or seven

10:52 which have become clients. And that

10:54 person is individually also ended up

10:56 becoming a client as well.

10:59 >> Guess what? Worth the time to do the

11:01 exercise. Worth the time to do the

11:03 outreach.

11:04 >> Yeah.

11:05 >> Because the worst that's going to happen

11:06 is somebody doesn't get back to you and

11:09 then you were no worse off than you were

11:11 before you made the outreach.

11:12 >> Yeah. Not at all. Um, so this sounds

11:16 like, you know, the important part in

11:18 here is you being involved. You know,

11:20 four years ago, AI wasn't nearly as

11:23 prevalent as it is now. Now that you

11:25 walk people through it, do you put like

11:26 any sort of AI lens to filter for people

11:29 and then have them kind of QC the

11:31 results or is it like, hey, do the

11:33 manual work. The manual work is going to

11:35 make it better.

11:36 >> The manual works in a make it better

11:38 because AI doesn't know what your

11:40 relationship with them is.

11:42 >> Yeah.

11:42 >> Yeah. A AI doesn't know if they're on

11:44 your list because you met them once at a

11:46 networking event and never talked to

11:48 them ever again. or you met them once,

11:51 they became a really good relationship

11:53 and it's somebody that you've talked to

11:54 once a quarter and kept in touch with.

11:56 So, but where AI will help is okay,

12:00 what's the quick pathy twoline LinkedIn

12:03 message I should send?

12:04 >> What's the fourline email I should send

12:07 to try to get somebody on a

12:08 conversation? So, AI is very very

12:11 helpful for that.

12:13 >> Can be really helpful in terms of

12:14 helping you to track if you don't have a

12:16 system to track. So AI can be a very

12:19 useful tool for those kinds of things.

12:21 And quite frankly, when you develop some

12:23 really good messages, especially the

12:25 initial outreach is typically along the

12:27 lines of, "Hey, Austin, it's been a

12:30 while since we've talked. I've kind of

12:31 dropped the ball. I apologize. Would

12:33 love to reconnect and find out what's

12:35 happening with you and share with you

12:36 what I'm up to. When's a good time for

12:38 us to talk?"

12:40 >> Yeah,

12:40 >> that that message can be copy paste for

12:43 just about anybody in your network that

12:45 you haven't talked to in the last six

12:46 months. Yeah. What if it's been longer?

12:49 I mean, I got to assume it would still

12:51 work, right?

12:52 >> It still works or the person doesn't get

12:54 back to you. And again, that's okay.

12:57 >> Shrug it off. Keep moving forward for

12:58 sure.

12:59 >> Next.

13:00 >> Yeah. No, that that makes perfect sense.

13:02 Like AI is not going to understand it.

13:04 And really, what you're looking for is

13:06 connections that you know are going to

13:08 work with you. They don't necessarily

13:09 have to be in an industry or have some

13:11 sort of analysis. It's all up here. And

13:13 by the time you trained your AI on who

13:15 you did or didn't know, it's like you

13:16 could have just come through the spring,

13:18 >> right? It'll take you 10 times longer.

13:20 And again, that when I downloaded the

13:23 list,

13:24 >> it was the summertime I'd have on a

13:26 baseball game

13:28 >> and just go through and, you know, knock

13:30 out 50, 100 names at a time. You also

13:33 don't have to finish going through all

13:36 1600 before you start. Once you go

13:38 through a chunk of two or 300, okay,

13:40 well, let me start reaching out to a

13:42 couple of the top contacts and you know,

13:44 later this week, oh, you know what, I've

13:46 got half an hour between calls. Let me

13:48 knock out another two or 300 in between

13:51 those calls. So, it doesn't all have to

13:53 be done at once. It doesn't have to be

13:55 hours and hours at a time. It can be 20

13:57 minutes here, 30 minutes there.

13:59 >> Yeah. I mean, I think my eyes might

14:00 bleed if I tried to look through 1600 of

14:03 people's names and no reason no reason

14:06 to do that, right? Right? Or even if you

14:07 have like 15 minutes between meetings

14:09 that you don't need to prep.

14:10 >> Correct. Now, not knock knock out 50 or

14:13 60. And again, you all have to get

14:14 through that whole list. I started doing

14:16 my outreach when I was 20% of the way

14:19 through the list because why wait just

14:22 to get to the end when I know I'm going

14:24 to reach out to everybody in my top

14:25 tier, top two tiers at some point

14:27 anyway.

14:28 >> Yeah. Now, when you mentioned your your

14:30 outreach, like have the conversations,

14:33 you just said it. I'm sorry I'm

14:35 blanking. you said you reach out, you

14:36 know, catch back up, ask for advice, ask

14:38 if there's anyone um that they think

14:41 >> I'm not even talking about asking for

14:43 referrals in that initial email. It's

14:45 just want to catch up.

14:46 >> Yes.

14:47 >> When's a good time for us to jump on a

14:49 call? So, the the mistake that I find

14:52 people will make when I give them this

14:53 advice is they'll try to skip a step and

14:56 do too much at once. And in that initial

14:58 email, it'll be a three paragraph email

15:00 and they're asking for referrals before

15:03 they've ever actually it's a keep it

15:05 real simple. Hey, want to reconnect?

15:08 Let's find a time to talk. And then you

15:11 have the conversation. But you can't do

15:13 you can't jumble those two steps

15:14 together because it's not going to be

15:16 nearly as effective.

15:18 >> Yeah.

15:18 >> And you just look at how much time you

15:20 have. So, if you're at the very

15:21 beginning, maybe you've got the

15:23 bandwidth for four of those calls a day.

15:25 >> And maybe you're reaching out to 70 or

15:27 80 people to try to book 20 calls. Maybe

15:30 you're four or five months in, you're a

15:32 lot busier, and now you're just sending

15:34 10 of those messages out a week with the

15:36 hopes of getting three phone calls. It's

15:39 really based on what your availability

15:40 is.

15:42 >> Yeah.

15:42 >> To be able to have the conversations and

15:45 the emails. You you could do the emails

15:48 at 9:00 at night, schedule them to go

15:50 out at 8:30 the next morning. It's not

15:52 something that needs to be done during

15:54 business hours.

15:55 >> Yeah. Now, when you get them on the

15:58 call, is the is that where you start

16:00 doing the this is what I'm up to next.

16:03 This is the advice I'm looking for.

16:04 >> And and quite frankly, I'm trying to

16:06 start with them. Hey, Austin, it's been

16:08 a while since we've talked. What have

16:10 you been up to? If I know him well

16:12 enough, how's your family doing? How are

16:14 things going? you know, you know, have

16:16 you been watching the Phillies? You

16:18 know, XYZ one, two, three, and then

16:20 geez, what's going on business-wise? You

16:22 know, what what have you been up to? You

16:24 know, who who are you trying to work

16:26 with?

16:27 >> I promise 75% of people will without you

16:32 prompting them turn around and go, "So,

16:34 Evan, what have you been up to?"

16:36 >> Yeah.

16:38 >> And that's, "Hey, you know, really

16:39 appreciate you asking. Wanted to share

16:42 with you. I've just started a new

16:43 business venture.

16:45 this is what I'm doing, you know, this

16:48 is who I'm looking to work with. Love to

16:51 pick your brain. Love to get your

16:52 advice. You know, if you were in my

16:54 role, how would you get started?

16:57 What would you be doing? Yeah. And then

17:00 from there, I might go, can I tell you a

17:02 little bit about what a good client

17:03 looks like for me and pick your brain a

17:06 little bit to see if there's anybody who

17:08 you know

17:09 >> that you think might be good for me to

17:11 talk to?

17:13 If they are personally interested, I

17:15 promise they will raise their hand and

17:16 go, "Well, wait a second, Evan. What wh

17:18 what what about me? Do you think this is

17:20 something I could use?"

17:21 >> Yeah.

17:21 >> And they will self- select.

17:24 >> And if they don't, I will walk them

17:26 through what a really good client looks

17:27 like. Again, I might cheat and go

17:30 through their LinkedIn connections

17:31 beforehand and either ask them about

17:33 specific people or see that they've got

17:36 lots of their contacts focused in two or

17:38 three different industries. So, I may

17:40 bring up that those are a couple of the

17:41 industries that I'm looking and again

17:43 oftentimes I'll get the oh yeah, geez,

17:46 you know what? You know, I don't know if

17:47 they'd be interested, but you know, I

17:49 know that person, I know that person.

17:51 >> Mhm. [clears throat]

17:52 >> And then the key to have it work really

17:55 well is I want a warm introduction

17:58 >> versus just a cool lead.

18:01 >> Yeah. Something that's not warmed up.

18:03 So, if Austin, you say, "Hey, Evan, I

18:06 think these two people, you know, might

18:07 be open."

18:09 What I'm going to say is Austin, I

18:11 really appreciate it. Last thing I want

18:14 to do is make you look bad. Have

18:16 somebody wondering why you gave their

18:19 email address, why you gave their phone

18:20 number out to somebody who who they

18:23 didn't know.

18:24 >> Would you mind just reaching out,

18:27 letting that person how we know each

18:28 other, seeing if they'd be open to

18:31 having a conversation with me? If

18:33 they're not open, totally fine. Don't

18:35 want to waste their time. don't want to

18:36 make don't want to make you look bad.

18:40 And if they are then yeah would love for

18:42 you to share with me. Yeah. The best way

18:44 to reach out to them.

18:46 >> Yeah.

18:46 >> If I can get you to agree to reach out

18:49 to the person. You reach out the person

18:53 is like yeah sure Austin have Evan get

18:55 they now before I call know who I am

18:59 know why I'm calling. There's a much

19:01 better chance I'm going to get a return

19:03 phone call or a return email.

19:05 >> Mhm. and I have a much better chance of

19:07 converting that opportunity

19:10 into business versus emailing somebody

19:13 who's not expecting my email, has no

19:15 idea who I am, and is probably just

19:17 going to delete it.

19:18 >> Yeah. Yeah. I love uh I've always heard

19:22 that called like the double opt-in

19:24 during networking. Um, and you know, as

19:26 somebody if somebody asks me for a

19:28 referral, I always actually feel way

19:30 more comfortable with what you're

19:31 suggesting the person ask, which is I

19:33 would actually if they're not asked by

19:34 that individual, be like, "Hold on, let

19:36 me ask them first if it's okay if I make

19:38 the introduction."

19:39 >> Um, so I think if somebody's listening

19:40 in and going, you know, oh, the double

19:42 opt-in sounds like extra work. It's like

19:44 honestly I would be asking I would be

19:47 forcing that to be the first way we do

19:48 it. I'd be like, well, let let me make

19:50 the introduction. Let me go talk to the

19:51 other person. So again, it's almost like

19:54 manually going through, you know, your

19:56 list of connections. Are you willing to

19:58 do an extra five minutes up front?

20:01 >> Yeah.

20:02 >> To triple your chances of converting

20:05 that contact.

20:06 >> Yeah.

20:07 >> In into a client and doing it with less

20:09 followup. So again, that's where I'm a

20:11 work smart versus work hard. I'd rather

20:13 do a little bit more upfront

20:15 >> to make my job a lot easier when I'm

20:17 doing the outreach

20:19 >> versus just don't doing what's quicker.

20:22 but then isn't going to get me the

20:23 results I want to get.

20:24 >> Yeah, 100%. And then you mentioned um

20:28 the self- select thing. Have you had any

20:30 stories where somebody has been like,

20:32 "Oh, this might be interesting for them.

20:34 I'll let them self- select. I'm not

20:35 going to push it." You got the intro and

20:38 then later down the line, the person who

20:40 didn't self- select earlier on actually

20:42 ends up selecting in or you went maybe

20:44 went back to and said, "Hey, you know, I

20:46 worked with them. Thank you so much.

20:47 We've been having a ton of success.

20:49 Like, just want to say thank you." and

20:51 then had that end up turning into

20:52 somebody who worked with you because of

20:54 >> Absolutely. Yeah, that there were, if

20:56 I'm being completely honest, I was a

20:58 little disappointed at the beginning.

21:00 Some people who I thought were going to

21:02 self- select right away

21:03 >> didn't self- select.

21:05 >> Once they saw it was two months later

21:07 and this wasn't something I was doing

21:10 between jobs, but this was something

21:12 that I was fully committed to.

21:14 >> Many of them came back 3 4 months later

21:16 and said,

21:17 >> "Hey, you know, Evan, I've been thinking

21:19 about it. Now I'm ready. If you're still

21:21 taking on new clients, yo, I'd love to

21:23 work with you.

21:24 >> Mhm. So,

21:26 >> so that absolutely happens.

21:27 >> Yeah. They just circled back without

21:29 even having to do anything to even

21:31 remind them, hey, here's what I'm still

21:33 doing.

21:34 >> Correct. And again, I was connected with

21:35 them on LinkedIn. So, they saw that that

21:38 I was starting to post some of the

21:40 things that I was doing, some of the

21:41 success stories that some of my clients

21:43 were having. So, so they were getting

21:45 some of that information without me

21:48 being in their face. And I think they

21:50 appreciated the fact that they didn't

21:51 get the hard sell in that first

21:53 conversation. And I think that gave me

21:55 credibility. And quite frankly, the

21:57 first two I can think of off the top of

21:59 my head are still ongoing clients three

22:02 and a half years later.

22:04 >> Yeah.

22:05 >> So, I'd much rather get them to self-

22:07 select, have it take just a little bit

22:09 longer,

22:10 >> but again, really just solidify those

22:11 long-term relationships and have them be

22:13 long-term clients than have them feel

22:15 like I'm desperate and I'm really

22:17 pushing really hard.

22:18 >> Yeah. to try to get that quick sale.

22:20 >> Yeah. Some people just aren't early

22:22 adopters, right? They're super risk

22:24 averse. Like they they

22:27 >> prove it. I just want to make sure that

22:29 this is for real before I start to jump

22:31 in.

22:31 >> Yeah. Yeah. And especially, you know, I

22:33 can imagine for like somebody very early

22:35 in their in their business, it's like

22:38 all right, entrepreneurship is hard. Are

22:41 you going to last, you know, three three

22:43 to six months?

22:43 >> Why don't you test your concept out on a

22:45 couple other people first? And if it's

22:47 still going okay, then then I'll come

22:49 in.

22:49 >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. No, I think

22:52 that's a good thing to remember. And you

22:53 know, some somewhat of a side tangent,

22:56 but like even for maybe a cold call or

22:58 any other type of prospecting you're

23:00 doing, just cuz somebody is saying not

23:03 right now or whatever. No, it just might

23:05 mean that in 6 months their their

23:08 situation might change or now that

23:10 they've been keeping track of you for a

23:11 while and they've kind of seen what's

23:13 happening or you know caught something

23:14 about you in the news, it could totally

23:16 turn it around.

23:17 >> Especially with technology, with nurture

23:19 campaigns, with being connected to

23:21 people through social media, just

23:24 because somebody tells me no now doesn't

23:25 mean that they're not going to be a

23:26 great prospect down the road.

23:28 Absolutely.

23:29 >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? Out of

23:32 curiosity then you as we're talking

23:33 about this and trying to stay connected

23:34 with folks. Um but then also the the

23:37 danger of having most of your LinkedIn

23:39 network not actually be people that you

23:41 know very well which I know I'm also

23:44 very much um an offender of that a

23:47 little too quick just to hit accept and

23:49 then all that kind of jazz.

23:50 >> Um what are your opinions on you know

23:54 managing that network on LinkedIn

23:56 specifically um to make sure that you

23:59 you keep it in the right place? I think

24:01 it depends on your situation.

24:03 >> Yeah.

24:03 >> If you've got a new business

24:06 and you want the entire world to know

24:08 about the business and you're putting

24:10 content out there,

24:12 >> the more people who are getting the

24:13 content, the better. So, I'm not going

24:16 to be as tight with monitoring people

24:18 coming in. If I am in a if I'm in more

24:20 of a sales role, if I'm in a very

24:23 specific niche industry, if everything

24:26 outside of it is just noise,

24:28 >> well, then I'm going to be a lot more

24:30 selective in terms of accepting people's

24:33 requests. And I'm still double-checking

24:34 now that, you know, I've got my own

24:36 business. I I I I also have a podcast. I

24:39 I I I want the world to know. But

24:42 [clears throat]

24:43 if you click in really quick and they're

24:45 from a foreign country and it looks like

24:47 an AI generated picture and they've got

24:49 22 LinkedIn connections, I probably

24:52 don't want to be connecting with bots.

24:54 >> Yeah.

24:54 >> So, so I'm I'm still doing a little bit

24:56 of vetting now

24:58 >> or okay, geez, this is one of the

25:00 category of where I'm getting seven spam

25:03 emails a day or seven spam LinkedIn

25:05 connections a day. I know the second

25:07 that I accept this request, I'm gonna

25:10 get three messages to try to jump on a

25:12 meeting. Well, I I I'm not accepting

25:14 those LinkedIn requests either.

25:16 >> Yeah, that makes sense. And now, now

25:18 that you've done the process, you've

25:20 you've started that long manual process

25:22 of getting the 1600. Now, are you doing

25:25 like a regular maintenance or vetting

25:28 and like keeping that networking up uh

25:30 up to date on your regular? I I I'm

25:33 continuing a as I network, I'm

25:35 continuing to people that I network that

25:38 that are a decent fit. I'm connecting

25:40 with them on LinkedIn. I probably still

25:43 do the exercise about twice a year.

25:46 >> Okay?

25:46 >> Because again, there's so many people in

25:48 my network. I don't know when people are

25:51 moving jobs, when people are doing

25:53 something different. So again,

25:55 downloading out, I'm spending a lot less

25:57 time. But when I'm saying, "Okay, people

26:00 move. They're at different spots than

26:01 they were before." Or, "Geez, you know

26:03 what? That person didn't, you know,

26:05 respond the first time around, but it's

26:07 been nine, ten months. I'd really like

26:08 to connect. Let let me kind of move that

26:10 person up."

26:11 >> And also, you know, the people who the

26:13 first time around were kind of the top.

26:15 I might move them down. And other

26:17 people, I might be like, you know what?

26:19 I think they may be connected to a lot

26:20 more people. Let let me kind of move

26:22 them up. I didn't reach out on the first

26:23 pass. Let me reach out on this pass. The

26:26 worst they can do is not respond.

26:28 >> Yeah. So, continue to maintain this pro

26:31 process.

26:31 >> Continue to maintain the process. I'd

26:34 say about twice a year.

26:35 >> Yeah.

26:36 >> Do the exercise again so that again you

26:38 see when people move, people change. But

26:40 after you do it the first time, it will

26:42 be quicker and quicker for you to go

26:44 through the exercise after that

26:46 >> because are you just doing net new

26:48 people for the

26:49 >> You're doing net new people. You're

26:51 you're you're looking to see did anybody

26:53 get promoted? Did anybody move jobs? you

26:56 know, you know what? Geez, you know

26:57 what? I Yeah, I did this exercise a long

26:59 time ago. It's been about a year since

27:01 I've reached out to that person. I

27:02 should probably reach back out to them.

27:05 >> But it's a lot more familiar because

27:06 you've you you've done the exercise not

27:09 that long ago. And now if I'm a let's

27:12 say somebody who's not starting their

27:14 own business or not running their own

27:16 business, would you change any of this

27:18 networking approach at all or is it the

27:20 exact same thing if I'm an AE at the,

27:24 you know, company Y?

27:26 >> It's the exact same thing. The one thing

27:27 I the one thing I might change a little

27:29 bit is I may narrow the field of people

27:32 that I'm reaching out to just a little

27:33 bit

27:34 >> to being people who are a lot more

27:36 likely going to be, you know, in your

27:39 specific industry, either a prospect or

27:42 more likely to be in front of prospects

27:44 so that I'm not doing just doing

27:46 activity for activity sake.

27:48 >> Yeah. So maybe don't like reach out to

27:50 your cousin who's, you know, doing

27:52 something completely unrelated and would

27:54 probably want to help you but probably

27:56 doesn't know your industry very or

27:58 anyone in your industry

27:59 >> or I'm not reaching out to a current

28:01 direct competitor

28:02 >> that's not going to go out of their way

28:04 to help me.

28:05 >> Yeah, I would I would assume they

28:07 wouldn't at least,

28:08 >> right?

28:09 >> Yeah. Um have have you ever accidentally

28:12 done that in any of your outreach or

28:14 were you always just careful with

28:15 [snorts]

28:16 >> Yeah, absolutely. My guess is we've all

28:18 seen people's LinkedIn profiles who we

28:20 have no idea what their product or

28:22 service actually is. So, absolutely. And

28:25 guess what?

28:26 >> Those conversations are 5 to 7 minute

28:29 conversations rather than 25 to 30

28:31 minute conversations. You never know

28:34 what's going to happen, where they're

28:35 going to be in a couple months. So,

28:37 they're not rude at all, but we may just

28:38 kind of quickly disqualify for now. Talk

28:41 about catching up later.

28:43 >> Yeah. Yeah. And I assume polite, you

28:46 move on. Maybe feel a little silly about

28:48 it, but no harm, no foul.

28:50 >> I I I've got an abundance mentality. My

28:52 belief is there's enough business out

28:54 there for everyone. Um and most people

28:57 aren't doing enough outreach. So yeah,

28:59 and sometimes it's a friendly competitor

29:00 or sometimes I'll connect with somebody,

29:02 it's like, you know what, I'm really

29:04 good in these areas, but if somebody's

29:06 got this kind of business, you know

29:07 what? It may not be the best kind of

29:09 prospect. So I I I'll keep you in mind.

29:11 And by the way, if what I'm doing that's

29:13 not really the core of what you're

29:15 looking at

29:16 >> if you think of it, you know, maybe

29:18 you'll have an introduction for me.

29:20 >> Yeah.

29:20 >> But I I I have referred business to a

29:23 competitor.

29:24 >> Um, you know, when when it hasn't been

29:25 the ideal fit for me.

29:27 >> Yeah. So, probably don't recommend

29:30 trying to set that situation,

29:31 >> right? Those aren't my top people that

29:34 I'm reaching out to,

29:35 >> but but it's not a disaster if you have

29:37 a conversation with somebody in that

29:39 category.

29:39 >> Totally. All right. You know, we talked

29:41 a little bit about when when we should

29:43 land this plane. We're getting near that

29:44 time, but I want to ask what I ask

29:46 everybody uh when we're ending the

29:48 podcast is um if there's one big

29:51 takeaway that you want people to have or

29:53 just one thing that they need to apply

29:54 to their own sales practice or their own

29:56 business um if they're listening in,

29:58 what's that one thing that you want to

29:59 make sure they take home with them after

30:01 listening?

30:02 >> The one thing that's really the key to

30:05 all of this when it comes to sales, have

30:08 a goal. know the target that you're

30:11 shooting for.

30:12 >> We're working really, really hard.

30:15 >> We want to work smart along the way. So,

30:17 if we've got that target in mind,

30:20 >> that helps. And the more that we are

30:23 tracking, you either h, you know, hold

30:26 yourself accountable. You find someone

30:28 to help to hold you accountable. Most of

30:31 the time, what we're doing is not rocket

30:33 science. We just come up with all kinds

30:35 of excuses or time just gets away from

30:37 us. Um, again, if if there was if there

30:40 was some kind of app or software out

30:42 there to help people with their

30:44 tracking, again, that that would be

30:45 ideal. Um, maybe a cheap plug for you.

30:49 Um, but again, we need to we need to

30:51 have the goal. Then we need to have the

30:53 accountability in place to make sure

30:55 that we're doing what we know we should

30:57 be doing on a regular basis and tracking

30:59 what's working, what's not working.

31:01 >> Yeah, that's great. And if you're not

31:02 networking, if you haven't leveraged

31:03 your network, go do that. put a goal on

31:05 that one specifically yesterday. Gold

31:08 mine. Yeah, exactly.

31:10 >> Cool. Well, Evan, I really appreciate

31:11 it. Thank you for sharing some wisdom

31:13 with us. Uh yeah, thanks for coming on.

31:15 >> No, thank you. I appreciate you having

31:17 me