Casey Jacox on Humility, Curiosity, and Vulnerability in Sales

Transcript

0:02 So Casey, you were talking about the uh

0:03 the three main pillar values of being

0:06 humble, vulnerable, and curious for a

0:08 seller. Uh just tell me a little bit

0:09 more about that.

0:11 >> Yeah. Um these are these are I think

0:14 skills that people forget about. Um we

0:16 we focus so much on AI and and the power

0:19 of technology, which I I'm not to say

0:20 they're not important. They are

0:21 important. M

0:23 >> but what when I when I was going through

0:25 my transition of leaving corporate kind

0:27 of figuring out what's next writing a

0:29 book and then this journey of you

0:31 speaking coaching found me it it really

0:33 what helped me kind of get grounded in

0:34 that was like hey what are the values

0:35 that drive me as a salesperson as a

0:38 leader as a dad

0:40 >> and it came down to humility

0:42 vulnerability and curiosity I think the

0:44 most humble people in the room uh it's

0:46 always about someone else I think uncle

0:48 Rico moment anybody know that's from

0:50 from Napoleon Dynamite whenever I got to

0:52 reference my college football days. I

0:53 got to give love to Uncle Rico.

0:54 >> Yeah.

0:55 >> Uh it was always about my linemen. It

0:56 was always about my teammates, my

0:57 defense, my receivers, my coaches. Like

0:59 sure the quarterback gets all the glory,

1:01 but quarterback can't throw the ball to

1:03 himself. And just like in sales,

1:05 salesperson needs a great product team.

1:06 They need a great recruiting team if

1:07 you're in staffing. They need a great

1:09 leader. They need a great someone's got

1:10 to send those invoices. Someone's got to

1:12 collect the payments. Like

1:14 >> even like there was times I would call

1:16 my help desk sometimes

1:18 just to say, "Hey,

1:20 >> they thought like something's wrong with

1:21 computer. I just want to say, "Hey man,

1:22 this guy's name is Eric. I said, "Eric,

1:23 I want to let you know my computer's

1:24 running great today." He's like, "Wait,

1:26 what?"

1:27 >> You know, just to just to kind of create

1:28 these different moments or uncommon

1:30 moments. Um, so I think humility is such

1:31 a power and and humility knowing that

1:34 when you're building relationships with

1:35 a customer, they don't care how much you

1:36 know. They care how much they don't care

1:38 what you know, but they care how much

1:38 you care.

1:40 >> I think curiosity is again, I'd say a

1:43 superpower that many sales people just

1:45 forget to do. They think so much about I

1:46 got to tell this client everything about

1:47 what we do. I got to tell them about the

1:49 product or offering. they might not care

1:51 yet salespeople. So,

1:53 >> if you're going to tell a story, if

1:54 you're going to ask questions or try to

1:56 like convince somebody something, ask

1:58 them if they're even interested in

1:59 hearing a story how you've helped

2:01 another customer and then they're ready

2:02 to listen. But I think curiosity is a

2:06 gap of most sellers, they ask one

2:08 question, they forget to ask the

2:10 follow-up question such as, "Tell me

2:12 more about that. Describe why that would

2:13 be important to you.

2:14 >> Explain what would happen if you didn't

2:16 achieve that goal."

2:17 >> You're getting really good at discovery.

2:18 And I think that's something I learned

2:20 at I think I got really started focusing

2:22 hard on at age 41. I was always I would

2:25 think uh unconsciously competently

2:27 curious, but now I'm consciously

2:29 competently curious and something I work

2:30 on all the time.

2:32 >> And I think vulnerability

2:35 uh one of my favorite leadership mantras

2:36 that I got taught from one of my

2:37 mentors, a guy named John Kaplan, he

2:38 said, "It's okay not to know everything,

2:40 but not okay not to do anything about

2:42 it." And so I think it's it can be

2:45 refreshing for a buyer sometimes when

2:46 you say, "Hey, you know, I'm not quite

2:48 sure about that. Let me let me do some

2:50 quick let me do a quick double check.

2:52 I'll get back to you within an hour."

2:53 You kind of set yourself up a chance to

2:54 like set expectations, set some

2:56 follow-up, but I've yet to meet the

2:58 perfect person, Austin. I've yet to meet

3:00 the perfect the person that knows

3:01 everything about every single thing in

3:02 life. And so I think just embrace

3:05 vulnerability because like as Bnee Brown

3:07 teaches us, it's it is the, you know, it

3:09 just is the key to connection and it

3:11 just humanizes us as humans and I think

3:13 it allows for relationships to form a

3:15 little bit more authentically.

3:17 >> Yeah. I mean like hearing this, I'm I'm

3:20 hearing like the uh all those like top

3:23 level like recommendations for a

3:24 saleserson as they're going through a

3:25 training like listen twice as much as

3:27 you speak. You got two ears, one mouth.

3:29 So, do that

3:30 >> or like be curious or like sorry, not be

3:32 curious but like we'll use open-ended

3:35 questions and like and it's very like

3:36 technical. It's very much like here are

3:39 the the tactical things that you need to

3:41 do and I don't often hear like the

3:44 underlying more emotional aspect or more

3:47 like foundational bedrock aspect of it

3:49 but it's like okay but you know being

3:52 humble being curious that's a more deep

3:55 version of saying like listen twice as

3:57 much as you talk. Um, have you noticed

4:00 that like as you focus on those things

4:02 or you've trained from that direction or

4:04 that underlying thing that you're seeing

4:07 a more impactful like set of actions?

4:10 Like somebody's actually saying tell me

4:12 more from a actually more interesting

4:14 like perspective because they're

4:16 thinking of it from being those three

4:18 those three things at all times.

4:20 >> 100%. I think it the biggest thing it

4:22 does Austin it removes your ego.

4:24 >> Yeah. And it keeps that thing checked

4:26 because we all got one. And uh in life I

4:29 don't want to be right. I want to get

4:30 what I want,

4:31 >> you know, which is my time. I want to

4:33 help someone else have a good a better

4:34 outcome. And

4:36 >> I think one thing that when you're

4:38 curious, your tone has to be

4:41 >> thoughtful. So I just say if I just say,

4:43 "Hey, tell me more about that." Well,

4:44 that was kind of firm and direct. I say,

4:46 "Wow, tell me more about that."

4:47 >> There's empathy in my voice. There's

4:49 tone a tone change. And if you're if you

4:53 genuinely want to be interested versus

4:55 interesting, I think more often than

4:57 not, you're going to find more people

4:58 would like to talk to you because you're

5:00 genuine and you're authentic versus and

5:02 when you do those things, I found in the

5:04 ripold age of 50. Now, you you can

5:07 create a type of differentiation that I

5:09 got taught called holistic

5:10 differentiation, which is how you make

5:12 people feel when you leave the call with

5:13 them.

5:14 >> Yeah.

5:14 >> Are are are you on your mind? are are

5:16 you on their mind in two hours from now

5:18 because of man that that Austin guy, he

5:20 asked great questions. I can't believe

5:21 he remembered to talk to me about that

5:23 and how do you remember my daughter is

5:25 going off to college uh orientation and

5:28 when you lead with that curiosity

5:29 because you documented you remembered

5:31 things about someone.

5:32 >> Mhm.

5:32 >> You don't need AI. You don't need AI for

5:35 that.

5:35 >> You don't need a faster computer for

5:37 that. You just need to be like and which

5:40 I think goes back to that HVC mindset

5:42 which I've like kind of tagged it. I

5:43 call it my HVC flywheel which when those

5:46 three things get going it just creates I

5:48 get goosebumps talking about it. It just

5:50 creates

5:51 >> momentum.

5:53 >> Yeah. I mean like you know AI noteaker

5:55 can get on the call but it can't

5:57 experience the emotions that the two

5:59 people or the three people that are you

6:01 know however many people are having as

6:02 they're going through it or like it

6:04 can't read. I mean like an easy one is

6:06 like the sarcasm, but it doesn't know

6:08 what you guys are truly forming those

6:11 deeper connections on. You feel it and

6:13 then you can see in the other person's

6:14 face that they're feeling it

6:16 >> and by having like the more emotional

6:18 approach to it or the more emotionally

6:20 intelligent approach to it, maybe not

6:22 emotional, just simply that seems like

6:24 it really creates that deeper

6:26 connection. I can already imagine like,

6:28 you know, sure I have I sit down, I do

6:30 my pre-call plan, I know what questions

6:32 I'm going to ask. Um, but I'm not gonna

6:36 but if I just stay rigid and I'm not

6:38 actually curious. I'm just like, well,

6:39 this is what I have to do. I got to

6:40 check these boxes. You're not gonna ask

6:42 the right questions at the moment. You

6:44 might luck out, but you're going to be

6:46 missing out the true curiosity, the true

6:48 where you are actually connecting the

6:50 true underlying, you know, conversation

6:53 that's happening that's not just

6:54 happening with the words that are being

6:56 said back and forth. Um, that's just

6:59 Yeah, go for it.

7:00 >> Yeah. Well, I was going to say you made

7:01 me think of so maybe a a great I mean a

7:04 hopefully this is a great thing for

7:05 because I I it really impacted me when I

7:07 learned this question is

7:09 >> so you imagine if a seller they we're

7:11 obviously taught pre-all plan get your

7:12 agenda together have all your questions

7:14 >> but we're so focused on that sometimes

7:16 we forget to be curious

7:18 >> so the question I teach that I got

7:20 taught that I that I found it to be very

7:22 very impactful. So, if I was meeting you

7:23 for the first time and I was getting

7:25 ready to sell you, you know, coffee cup,

7:27 I could say before I go into all that,

7:28 I'd say, "Hey, Austin. Hey, thanks for

7:30 making time to meet with me today. Hey,

7:31 before we get started, describe what

7:33 would make today a successful outcome

7:34 for you in the 30 minutes we have

7:36 today."

7:36 >> Mhm.

7:37 >> And let's say, for example, that the

7:39 things on my agenda don't match what you

7:41 want to talk about.

7:42 >> Yeah.

7:43 >> It gives me a chance as a quarterback

7:45 here, Uncle Rico moment again, to call

7:47 an audible line of scrimmage. I'm like,

7:48 "Oh, shoot. I wasn't ready to talk about

7:50 that." But I can still lean into my

7:52 curiosity and I could say,"Great,

7:53 Austin, tell me why that would be

7:54 impactful for us to talk about that."

7:57 >> And then maybe you going, "Well, because

7:58 Casey, I got this big initiative coming

8:00 up and it's going to impact this, this,

8:01 and this." Oh, wow. That sounds

8:03 exciting. Tell me who else that's going

8:04 to impact.

8:05 >> It just allows me to keep going, "Tell

8:06 me more. Tell me more." Because I'm

8:08 interested in what you want to talk

8:09 about. And I think buyers,

8:12 at least for me, like when I'm going

8:14 when I'm buying something, I'm already a

8:15 little bit I got my defense mechanisms

8:17 up because I'm feeling like is this dude

8:18 or this girl gonna try to like versus if

8:20 someone's genuinely curious at me, I'm

8:22 like I I I open up because I'm I know

8:25 they're there to help me and they're

8:26 going to guide me through a buyer's

8:27 journey versus trying to, you know,

8:30 force things into me I don't need.

8:32 >> Yeah. I mean, if you're not being

8:34 humble, you're not going to throw out

8:36 your agenda that you had pre-planned,

8:38 which is silly, right? They're giving

8:40 you the exact answers to the test at the

8:43 very beginning and saying, "Here's all

8:44 you got to answer for me. Here's what I

8:46 want from you." And if you go, "Uh, this

8:48 person doesn't know what I'm talking

8:49 about." Because you lack that you lack

8:51 the humility for it. All of a sudden,

8:53 you're throwing away the perfect

8:54 opportunity

8:55 because you're not willing to do HBC in

8:58 order to get moving forward.

8:59 >> Yeah. And maybe I might say this, again,

9:01 this might be uncommon to say, but maybe

9:03 I I'll say this where you could use a

9:04 vulnerability, too. I might say, "Yeah."

9:06 >> Wow, Austin. I'm I'm glad you said that.

9:08 Um, in all honesty, that was not on my

9:10 agenda, but I'm glad you brought it up

9:12 because now I'm excited to talk to you

9:13 about that.

9:14 >> Yeah,

9:15 >> that might be again, you're just show

9:16 you're just showing that we're not these

9:18 perfect people. And and you know,

9:22 sometimes there's c maybe one out of 10

9:24 buyers might not buy into this. I say,

9:26 who cares? You you can't win. You can't

9:29 win everybody.

9:30 >> But over time, when I do those when I

9:32 focus on those values and let those

9:33 values drive me, I'm a better version of

9:35 myself. I create better environments of

9:37 people around me. And um it just allows

9:40 me to again win my time. Either me

9:42 focusing on the right things at the

9:44 right time, write deals at the right

9:45 time, or helping the customer focus on

9:46 the right things at the right time that

9:48 they want to focus on.

9:49 >> Yeah. So, I mean, I think, you know, I

9:52 think it's fair to say that like, you

9:53 know, as you're learning these like this

9:55 new approach, this new idea concept,

9:58 you're going to have to give yourself

9:59 grace and it's going to take, you know,

10:00 time. You're not going to just, oh,

10:02 okay, cool. I listen to a podcast and

10:03 now I'm going to do it.

10:04 >> I'm an expert.

10:06 >> It's already there. It's already there.

10:07 So, for the person who's looking at this

10:08 and going, "Hey, you know what?" I was

10:10 just kind of like, "Here's my pre-all

10:12 plan." I wasn't really thinking about

10:13 being humble. I was curious, but I was

10:16 really just curious because I was told,

10:17 "Here are the questions I should be

10:19 asking everybody." Um, how do you what

10:21 recommendations or guidelines do you

10:22 have for somebody who's going, I all

10:24 right, I want to adopt this approach.

10:26 I'm not going to do it perfectly next

10:28 time. How do I start building this into

10:31 how I actually approach each of these

10:32 calls? So, I'm going to say two words

10:34 that are going to make every salesperson

10:35 get freakout mode. Role play. But I

10:38 don't call it role play, everybody. And

10:40 I I ask every sales leader, get rid of

10:42 the get rid of the phrase role play

10:44 >> in your in your vernacular because I

10:46 when I I played sports, I've never heard

10:49 of a coach, any sport, let's say we have

10:51 a game on Saturday, they're going to be

10:53 they're never going to say, "All right,

10:54 guys, two to all right guys or girls 2

10:55 to 4." Every day we got role play.

10:58 >> Yeah.

10:59 >> They say we have practice from 2 to 4.

11:01 Yet people in business and sales, we

11:03 just don't think we have to practice

11:04 because now we're adults and we're these

11:06 experts and we can just wing it.

11:08 >> But imagine if we told our customers,

11:09 "Hey, nice to meet you, Austin. I'm

11:11 going to wing it today and practice on

11:12 you. Are you okay with that?"

11:14 >> And they'd probably say, "No, get the

11:15 hell out of here." So, I mean, being

11:17 sarcastic, but the point is I love the

11:19 love that you said grace. That's

11:20 something I say a lot to the clients I

11:22 work with is give yourself grace. And we

11:26 all each person in the world gets,440

11:30 minutes a day. No one gets more. No one

11:31 gets any more. No one gets less. So if

11:34 there's something that triggered you

11:35 like, "Wow, I I'd like to get better at

11:36 that." Perfect. Even if you practiced

11:40 five minutes a day asking that intro

11:42 question. You practice asking what I

11:44 what I got taught, which now I teach

11:46 called TED based questions. Tell me,

11:47 explain, describe.

11:49 >> Practice asking a TED based question

11:51 that aligns with a problem that you

11:53 solve for your customer. Practice

11:55 learning a case study that your maybe a

11:59 more seasoned professional in your

12:00 company did. Hey, tell me how you did

12:02 that. Tell me what was the problem. What

12:03 question did you ask? Take notes. Start

12:06 creating the these things that you can

12:08 then put into practice. And maybe you do

12:10 it off hour, salespeople.

12:12 >> Yeah.

12:12 >> Again, when we were in high school and

12:14 college, you had homework. Sometimes

12:16 there's homework in the job. Um I'm

12:18 going to date myself here, but I

12:20 remember um remember the Sunday

12:22 classifides?

12:24 Yeah,

12:24 >> I mean I'm dating myself now. These are

12:26 and for people have no idea what I'm

12:27 talking about. So a Sunday morning paper

12:29 was a thick thing and before the really

12:32 the internet they would put like job

12:33 descriptions and job postings and so I

12:36 was in staffing and consulting for 20

12:37 years. That's where I started learning

12:39 about the companies out there. I would

12:40 literally go through on a Sunday, learn

12:42 about all these companies and I would

12:44 practice, hey, what questions would I

12:45 want to ask that might make them be

12:46 interested to talk to me or what that

12:49 looks like this this posting's been o

12:51 open for now three Sundays in a row.

12:52 Well, they're obviously having a

12:53 challenge. Maybe lead with, hey, tell me

12:55 what's what what challenges are you

12:57 having? Tell me why this can this

12:58 posting's been open there. But again,

13:00 practice is a lost art in sales. Um, and

13:04 usually it's because they're lacking

13:06 humility, vulnerability, curiosity, and

13:08 their egos up and they they want to just

13:09 puff their chest out and be perfect. But

13:11 I hope when there's a top performer

13:13 listening to this because I think that's

13:16 I think as I reflect back on my career,

13:18 one thing that helped me is so I was top

13:20 rep at our company for 10 10 years

13:21 straight nationally. I still practice. I

13:24 still was not afraid to say I don't

13:25 know. I still looked for other people.

13:26 Hey, can you proof this email real

13:27 quick? And when you have that mindset of

13:30 you've never arrived. You might have

13:31 been really really elite or great today,

13:33 but doesn't mean you're guaranteed to do

13:35 that tomorrow. So keep practicing these

13:38 skills. And to your thing, Sarah, give

13:40 yourself grace cuz you'll you won't

13:42 regret it.

13:43 >> It's so weird that we expect children to

13:46 have a growth mindset and then at some

13:47 age we're supposed to flip into a

13:50 non-growth mindset. And it's like, why?

13:52 The the time when I was achieving the

13:54 most and, you know, do growing the most

13:57 was the time where I was supposed to

13:58 believe that I had like things to learn

14:00 and was, you know, expected to be wrong

14:03 on occasion. And then we're like, "Oh,

14:04 now you turned 18, you have your first

14:06 job. turn that switch off even though

14:08 it's like wait a second all of my

14:10 progress came prior to turning that

14:11 switch off. This doesn't make any sense

14:13 to switch over to this other like

14:15 mindset. Um you know you you mentioned

14:18 to like the practice and all that stuff.

14:20 Uh what about you get done with a call

14:22 like are you doing like a post call

14:24 debrief where you're kind of sitting

14:25 there? Yeah. What does that look like uh

14:27 as you're trying to adopt this HBC?

14:30 >> Yeah. So it's interesting you say so

14:31 like a page I I've actually memorized

14:33 it's like page 83 84 in my book where I

14:35 I talk about when there's sellers say

14:37 you have multiple people on your team

14:38 and you're you have a cross functional

14:40 sale so it's a complex sale a lot of

14:42 times people will leave a meeting and

14:44 then they assume that well we're all

14:46 thinking the same we all we're all mind

14:48 readers and this is where I think people

14:50 need to slow down and say there's

14:51 expectations of what we're going to do

14:53 but do we have an agreement of what

14:54 we're all going to do so imagine if we

14:56 took 3 to 5 minutes hey man good call me

14:58 what's one or two things you guys heard

15:00 Okay. What you hear? Okay. I heard the

15:01 same thing. Perfect. We're on the same

15:02 page.

15:03 >> My expectation. This is what I'm going

15:04 to do. What are you guys going to do?

15:06 Okay. Boom. Are we all in agreement,

15:07 we're on the same page. It's like again

15:09 when you're calling a play in the

15:10 huddle, you you call a play in the

15:11 huddle. You break. Now we know what

15:12 we're going to do at the line of

15:13 scrimmage.

15:14 >> Yeah.

15:15 >> Then I love sending recaps to my

15:18 clients, letting them know, hey, I'm

15:20 going to send this recap to you. Many of

15:21 my customers tell a story. Many of my

15:23 customers find this valuable because I'm

15:24 going to show you that we we listen. We

15:26 understand what's important to you. If

15:27 you could please send me a note back,

15:28 Mr. Mrs. customer, let me know if I've

15:30 if I've captured everything correctly.

15:31 If I've missed anything, please let me

15:33 know.

15:33 >> Yeah.

15:34 >> A lot of times when I do that, they keep

15:35 selling themselves. Oh, you know what? I

15:37 forgot to mention this. Or you know

15:38 what? This looks great, Casey. Thanks so

15:39 much for doing it.

15:40 >> Yeah.

15:41 >> But too often we go from call to call to

15:43 call to call to call and maybe we forget

15:46 to document some of those things and now

15:47 you become like every other seller that

15:49 frustrates a buyer because they didn't

15:50 listen, you don't understand my

15:52 business, you didn't follow up. Again,

15:54 all these things you don't need AI for.

15:56 Sure, AI can help you do these things.

15:59 maybe more efficiently,

16:01 >> but you still got to put in the work.

16:02 And so I love that you called that out

16:05 because um too often we we don't slow

16:10 down to do that. We get going way too

16:12 fast and then when you get going way too

16:13 fast, this little big or longer word

16:15 called complacency

16:17 >> sneak sneaks in and then bad habits

16:19 start being formed.

16:20 >> Yeah. Um what about like directly to

16:24 like analyzing your own your own

16:27 humility, your own vulnerability, your

16:29 own like because one of the things that

16:30 I learned uh during you know schooling

16:34 uh was um like through like emotional

16:36 intelligence papers they would just be

16:38 like look you get done with the

16:39 situation then you just sit down and you

16:40 like what were my emotions what were

16:42 their emotions what why did those

16:44 emotions come up why did their emotions

16:46 come up maybe we had a conflict what

16:49 what's like the and like just sitting

16:50 there really thinking about it. I'd be

16:52 curious like if you have any like

16:53 recommendations like like just like

16:55 getting done with a call and just being

16:56 like all right did my ego show up? Did

16:59 was I did my did a lack of humility stop

17:02 me from you know being able to switch my

17:04 agenda and then be able to step like you

17:06 know what they said this and I totally

17:08 ignored it because I was not humble

17:10 enough or

17:11 >> hey you know I had a moment of curiosity

17:13 but I didn't follow it because xyz and

17:16 then just really analyzing those three

17:18 aspects. Um, I'm not sure like you're

17:21 the expert on this thing. I just start

17:23 making you think of like the training on

17:25 the emotional intelligence from the

17:26 past.

17:27 >> Yep. Love that. Great question, man. I

17:28 think the most simplistic way is when

17:30 you leave a call, look for gaps and

17:33 don't let the gaps like crush you. Look

17:35 for the gaps like, "Oh my god, sweet.

17:37 Yes, I found the gap. Now I can go fix

17:39 it."

17:39 >> And so when I look for feedback, I like

17:42 putting um numbers in the question.

17:45 >> Mhm.

17:46 >> Which gets more specific answers. So,

17:48 let's say that you're my boss and I'm

17:49 like, "Hey, Austin, I think that call

17:50 went well. Tell me two things you

17:52 thought I did well and two things I

17:53 could have done differently or better."

17:54 >> Nice. Yeah.

17:56 >> And then whatever you say, I might then

17:57 it gives me a chance to be more curious.

17:58 Great. Tell me tell me why or tell me if

18:01 I did if I shoot I didn't ask that

18:03 question, but if I asked that question,

18:04 tell me how it would have impacted the

18:06 the conversation better so I can learn

18:08 from that.

18:09 >> Yeah.

18:10 >> Because I think when when the feed when

18:12 it's too loose like, "Hey, how's your

18:13 day going?" Great. Well, if I but versus

18:15 I said, "Hey, tell me two things that

18:16 make made you smile today."

18:18 >> Yeah.

18:18 >> Totally different outcome.

18:21 >> Makes you really think about it, right?

18:22 It's it's forcing function of actually

18:25 having thought and intent put into what

18:27 that is going to look like. Um, so from

18:30 like a sales leader perspective,

18:32 >> uh, so you're making me think of, so

18:35 we're both athletes, we both played a

18:37 bunch, so like I think our brains just

18:38 default back to those settings.

18:40 >> Yeah. Um, what I when I used to coach, I

18:43 would sit down at halftime with my team

18:45 and we'd actually start every halftime

18:46 with what do you guys think went well?

18:49 What do you guys think, you know, went

18:52 poorly or what was your opportunity to

18:54 improve? Uh, we got we got to have such

18:56 a level of comfortability like what went

18:57 bad? And they were like, yeah, they

18:58 didn't put up their shields cuz we

19:00 weren't going to yell at them about what

19:01 went bad. And then we' be like, okay,

19:03 what adjustments do you want to make?

19:05 And then we would switch it over and we

19:07 go, hey, you guys nailed it. This, this,

19:08 and this. here's something that we think

19:10 you also should be taking in

19:11 consideration for the second half. And

19:13 it was cool because at the beginning of

19:15 anytime we take on a new team, the first

19:18 couple games, they would be struggling

19:20 with, you know, how do I answer these

19:22 questions,

19:23 >> but then over the course of the season,

19:25 we get them for multiple seasons. The

19:27 course of the first season, they'd start

19:28 owning the halftime conversations. And

19:31 then by like the second or third season,

19:33 like they would be just talking to each

19:34 other and having like a really

19:36 productive conversation. And we would we

19:38 would offload most of it and then we'

19:39 just be listening in and then like

19:41 emphasizing like hey like that point

19:43 like coach's perspective like that's the

19:45 big one like really change this thing

19:47 like they're beating you on the left

19:49 side you guys aren't recovering you have

19:50 to make sure you're getting back on

19:51 defense first or like whatever that you

19:53 know conversation was. Um and so it just

19:56 seems like as a sales leader the thing

19:58 you could do too is flip it on to them

19:59 and say hey what do you like get done

20:02 with a call with them and then be like

20:03 hey what do you think could have been

20:04 the things to improve and then

20:07 Spot on, man. What you're doing is

20:08 you're developing critical thinking

20:10 skills for your sellers.

20:11 >> Yeah.

20:12 >> And as a sales leader, your job is not

20:14 to be the loudest in the room or the

20:15 smartest in the room. Your job is to

20:16 create the loudest room or create the

20:18 smartest room. And if you're the one

20:19 always talking, you're going to let let

20:22 this four-letter word called fear sneak

20:24 in.

20:26 >> And when fear when fear likes to sneak

20:28 in,

20:29 >> uh, now we we're not critical thinking.

20:31 Now our ego is up. Now we're now we're

20:32 losing confidence. And I think sales

20:34 leaders or any leader, remove fear,

20:36 instill confidence. That's that's your

20:38 number one job. And so when you can

20:40 create space through humility,

20:41 vulnerability, and curiosity where your

20:43 sellers or your soccer players or

20:44 whoever it is is not afraid to say,

20:46 "Man, God, I sucked at that thing. Why

20:48 did I let that happen?" Or, "Man, how

20:50 did I forget to document thing?" Or, "Oh

20:51 my god, I've been practicing this

20:52 question all along." And instead of

20:54 torching them, say, "Hey, you know what,

20:56 man? Give yourself grace. At least you

20:58 at least you picked it up. Now, just

21:00 let's just don't let one bad call lead

21:02 to two bad calls

21:04 >> or or one bad day lead to two bad days.

21:06 >> Like, you hired these people for a

21:08 reason. Remind remember why you hired

21:10 them. Keep them confident. Not like the,

21:14 you know, your Iron Fist. You're

21:15 standing on your pedestal and you're

21:16 just like constantly making people that,

21:19 you know, just play tense. I want my I

21:21 want my players playing loose. And I

21:23 think about like,

21:24 >> yeah,

21:24 >> this is like old school Joe Montana. Um,

21:28 there's a there's a clip back from like

21:30 the 1980 something Super Bowl where he's

21:32 it's like they're getting ready for that

21:34 final two-minute drive and that they're

21:36 in the huddle. He goes, "Hey guys, look,

21:38 is that is that John Candy in the front

21:40 row over there?" I mean, everyone's

21:42 like, "What? What? Dude, we're about to

21:43 freaking we have a minute 43 left. We

21:45 got to go score a touchdown." And Joe

21:46 Montana's talking about John Candy in

21:48 the front row. So, again,

21:51 >> keep your teams loose and watch how much

21:54 more they're going to be more

21:55 successful. And then then they're to

21:57 your point helping them create these

21:58 critical thinking skills so they can go

22:00 out and you're not so anxious as a

22:02 leader cuz it's like they're not trained

22:04 not to do to what to say what to do

22:06 because you've created the environment

22:07 for that fear to sneak in.

22:09 >> Yeah. I mean, we've been talking a lot

22:10 from like the rep's perspective on

22:12 having, you know, all of this, you know,

22:14 from a sales leader's perspective, is it

22:16 as is it as simple as just demonstrating

22:18 it or are there nuances that if a sales

22:20 leader is listening in, they should be

22:22 thinking about these nuances separate

22:24 from what we've talked about from the

22:25 rep's perspective?

22:26 >> One of my favorite I think you're asking

22:28 good questions, brother. One of my

22:30 favorite things I love leaders to do is,

22:32 and it's so that most people I've worked

22:34 with so far, I'm sure there's someone

22:36 out there that does this really, really

22:37 well, but I'll ask a leader, I go, "Tell

22:39 me, have you tell me the last time in

22:42 front of your entire team you've told

22:43 your team where you were scared in the

22:45 job or when you failed or when you

22:48 sucked or when you had a brutal call and

22:51 sometimes like they'll say, "Why? Why

22:53 would I do that?" I go, "Why wouldn't

22:54 you do that?"

22:55 >> And I get a blank stare. I go, if you if

22:57 you can show that you once sucked at

22:59 this job, you're going to create the

23:01 space of, okay,

23:03 >> then your team will give themsel that

23:04 much more grace because they realize the

23:06 perfect doesn't exist.

23:08 >> And when we get these jobs or first

23:10 jobs, we're so scared to mess up because

23:12 it's like, oh god, if I

23:13 >> if I get hung up on or they don't get

23:15 that deal closed, they're going to

23:16 can me. Sorry, sbomb on that one. Um,

23:19 edit it out.

23:22 But um but yeah, I think that that's

23:25 that's a perfect example I think for me

23:27 at least that I've seen in my life so

23:28 far where and I even when the world of

23:30 coaching I do now I often I I like to

23:32 lead with my own failures so I disarm

23:35 people so they're willing to share

23:36 theirs

23:37 >> which is again that's power of

23:38 vulnerability.

23:39 >> Yeah. I mean you know failure is the

23:41 greatest teacher. Success is not the

23:43 greatest teacher. I mean, we're all

23:44 driving to success, but failure is where

23:45 you learn. And if you're going to come

23:47 in and not and you want a team to change

23:50 and you're not going to create an

23:51 environment where failure is okay, like

23:54 then what how is change going to happen?

23:56 It's not going to happen because people

23:57 are just going to run to success.

23:59 They're going to hide their failures.

24:00 There's going to be no learning

24:01 opportunity. There's no opportunity to

24:03 change then if you don't have that

24:05 introduce.

24:06 >> Yeah. When I would real quick, when I

24:07 would watch film in college with my

24:09 coach, shout out to coach Bo Baldwin if

24:10 you're listening. It's probably not, but

24:11 if he is, uh, let's say I have a great

24:14 game, 27 to 38, 340 yards, four

24:16 touchdowns, one pick, let's say, and one

24:19 interception. The 27 to 38 that those

24:22 incompletions I had, we would watch

24:24 those negative plays, the plays that

24:26 weren't successful five, six, seven,

24:28 eight times. The plays where I was

24:30 successful, we'd watch it once or twice

24:31 and be like, "Hey, great read, great

24:32 throw. All right, next." I'm like, "But

24:34 that was kind of fun to watch, coach.

24:35 Can we just

24:36 >> Yeah, let me feel good about it."

24:38 >> Right. And it wasn't to beat us up. was

24:40 like they were learning moments and it

24:42 wasn't like embarrassing but it was like

24:43 co getting coached and when you can

24:46 embrace a mindset of you don't know

24:48 everything and that's okay and when you

24:50 find your gaps

24:52 be excited about it because now you can

24:54 go fix them.

24:55 >> Yeah, man. We could keep talking for

24:57 forever about this and I have like a ton

24:59 more questions but I want to respect

25:00 your schedule.

25:02 >> I got two Yeah, we should definitely do

25:04 this again. I would love to get circle

25:06 back to it but I got two requests from

25:07 you.

25:08 >> Yeah. Um the first one would be or take

25:11 them in whatever order you want. One of

25:13 them is the one big takeaway somebody

25:15 should if they're listening in uh should

25:18 you know make sure that they apply like

25:20 if they can only take one thing from

25:21 this what would that big thing be? And

25:23 the other thing would be if they want to

25:24 learn more about you know what you're

25:26 saying how can people find out more like

25:28 from a book from your podcast from how

25:30 do they find out more about uh humility

25:33 vulnerability and curiosity?

25:34 >> I think if there's one thing in the 28

25:36 minutes we've been talking

25:39 uh whether you're a sales leader or a

25:40 salesperson.

25:43 >> Hey, great to meet you today. Before we

25:45 get started, tell me what would make

25:46 today a successful outcome for you.

25:48 >> Get the answers to the test before you

25:50 take the test.

25:51 >> It'll make the conversation so much more

25:53 easier because you're not guessing what

25:54 they want to talk about.

25:56 >> Um if people want to learn more about

25:58 me, I'm super active on LinkedIn. I love

26:00 connecting. I love serving others. I

26:01 love connecting people.

26:03 >> Um then I do this all the time. I call

26:06 it a boomerang mindset. And the key to

26:07 having a good boomerang mindset is you

26:09 don't keep score. Um I don't expect

26:11 things in return. I love serving because

26:13 I know karma is legit and it finds me.

26:15 It found me twice this morning already.

26:17 Um my website is kcyjox.com.

26:21 Um I wrote a book called win the

26:22 relationship not the deal is really kind

26:25 of the journey of how I when I was

26:27 successful in business and sales. How

26:28 did I do it? And it was about bringing

26:30 energy, setting expectations, listening,

26:32 documenting, checking my ego, practicing

26:34 often, having patience. Um, and then as

26:37 you mentioned in the podcast, I'm in

26:38 season seven of the quarterback Dadcast.

26:40 >> I interview dads to talk about humility,

26:43 vulnerability, and curiosity so we can

26:45 be better dads at home, better leaders.

26:48 And so that those episodes come out

26:49 every Thursday morning on um uh Spotify

26:52 or Apple, wherever you can find your

26:54 podcasts.

26:54 >> All right, Casey, I really appreciate

26:56 it. I'm gonna try I I think I failed at

26:58 getting you out of here on time, but

26:59 >> it's okay. I already set

27:01 >> I actually set expectations. Shout out

27:02 to Chris Copel if you listen. I told him

27:04 I'm going to be a minute or two late, so

27:05 I've he already knows. But this has been

27:07 awesome, man.