Alana Nicol on Warm Introductions and Referral Prospecting

Transcript

0:02 We have another episode of Tailwind.

0:04 Today we're joined by Elana Nickel. She

0:07 is the owner of a Sandler franchise in

0:09 the Detroit metro area. They've been

0:12 around for 33 years, and we were just

0:13 talking about how that's one of the

0:14 longest standing Sandler franchises,

0:16 which is really cool. Um, anything else

0:18 I missed uh about the uh the breakdown

0:21 there?

0:22 >> Yeah, no, it sounds about right. Been

0:24 around a while, love the Sandler

0:25 business, and happy to be here today.

0:27 >> Yeah, really appreciate you joining. Um,

0:29 so we were talking a little bit more

0:30 about uh before the episode started

0:32 about referrals and the power of your

0:34 network. Um, you mind expanding just a

0:36 little bit like on the value and why

0:38 people should stick around and listen

0:40 and learn how to really leverage their

0:41 network some more?

0:42 >> Yeah, absolutely. Being able to leverage

0:45 our network to set us up with other

0:47 people that people we already know know.

0:50 So, it's a much warmer introduction is

0:52 one of the best ways that we can to grow

0:55 our sales. It should be one of our

0:57 highest conversion rates if we look at

0:59 our opportunities. Anything that comes

1:01 from a referral or introduction, and I'm

1:03 going to use those words synonymously,

1:06 um really is what I've seen being in

1:09 this business, the most effective way to

1:12 grow our sales, but also the most

1:14 underutilized.

1:15 Most sales people are not proactive

1:17 enough about asking for those

1:19 introductions and referrals when they

1:21 should be because they should be one of

1:23 their highest conversion rates.

1:24 >> Yeah. if do you have a a general rule of

1:27 thumb on how much you should balance,

1:29 you know, doing referral work versus

1:30 doing other lead generation work?

1:33 >> Yeah, I would say there's no hard and

1:35 fast rule. It's really different based

1:36 on each industry. Um, but if if it's me,

1:41 I certainly would rather talk to warm

1:43 introductions than cold introductions

1:45 just by the nature of the numbers. It

1:47 takes a whole lot more effort and energy

1:49 on the cold outreach than it does on the

1:51 warm reach. So for me, majority of my

1:54 time, although I have an established

1:56 business, established territory, an

1:58 established client base, majority of my

2:00 prospecting efforts are focused on as

2:03 using the people that I know to get to

2:04 people that I don't know because the

2:06 warmer it is, the more successful it

2:08 tends to be. So it just depends uh on

2:11 each person, what their what their sales

2:13 goals are, how much brand new, net new,

2:15 I'm going to call attain business they

2:16 have to go out and get, how much

2:18 business they need to go and get within

2:20 existing accounts. But either one,

2:22 whether it's brand new or growing with

2:24 an existing, using the relationships

2:26 that we have, tends to be the most

2:28 beneficial source for getting new

2:30 business.

2:30 >> Yeah, I'm sure changes for individuals

2:33 and by industry on how successful or how

2:35 much more easy it is to convert a warm

2:37 one. But there's no way that anyone's

2:40 getting better conversion rates with

2:41 cold outreach than versus

2:43 >> No. Especially today, there's just so

2:45 much noise out there, it's really hard

2:46 to break through it.

2:48 >> Yeah. So, what do you think is one of

2:49 the bigger reasons that people don't do

2:52 like the networking aspect of it? I

2:53 mean, it's right there. Everyone wants

2:55 the warm intro. It's probably more

2:56 comfortable. It's more successful. And

2:58 yet, here we are in a world where people

3:00 aren't doing it.

3:02 >> Yeah. You would think it would be a lot

3:04 more comfortable. But what we find is

3:05 there's two components to where that

3:08 hesitancy comes from. The first one is

3:10 what I'm going to say is conceptual and

3:13 it lives up here in our head. All this

3:14 head trash that we have that we don't

3:16 want to sound needy. We don't want to

3:18 sound desperate. We don't want to sound

3:20 pushy. We might tell ourselves,"I

3:22 haven't earned the right to ask for that

3:24 yet." Uh, and that kind of sits with us.

3:27 And then that keeps us from the

3:29 technical side, which is the how to ask.

3:32 So, it's those two roadblocks that tend

3:34 to get in the way. The conceptual around

3:36 it's not polite, I don't want to ask, I

3:38 haven't earned the right, etc. to I

3:40 don't know how to ask, I'm not sure

3:42 exactly how to say it. So, I would say

3:44 every single person that I talk to has

3:46 some combination of those two that that

3:49 tend to get in our way uh for asking.

3:52 And I'll tell you that most salespeople

3:54 don't have a goal for how many they want

3:56 to ask for on a daily weekly basis. And

3:59 if you're familiar with Sandler, we're a

4:01 big proponent of activity metrics

4:03 because activities are the only things

4:04 that we can control. I cannot control

4:06 results. But most salespeople prior to

4:09 Sandler anyway, they have um I'm going

4:12 to call them lagging indicator goals.

4:14 They have their sales target. They have

4:15 their sales quota. They have whatever

4:17 that looks like, but they don't have

4:19 those activity matrix for how many new

4:22 conversations do they have? How many

4:23 introductions and referrals do they need

4:25 to ask for? And without a goal, our

4:28 focus tends not to be on it. And we tend

4:30 to be a bit more reactive.

4:32 >> Yeah. So, what would be like a practical

4:35 first step? you're talking to me and I'm

4:37 saying, "Hey, I don't do any networking

4:39 right now. What should I do by the end

4:41 of this week to fix this huge mistake

4:43 that I'm making?"

4:44 >> Yeah. So, we can get into the tactics in

4:46 a little bit. I want to give you a rule

4:47 of thumb that I think is a really good

4:50 baseline for when it comes to

4:52 expectations and what to think about as

4:54 we start leveraging our network. Um, so

4:56 we call it the 2060 rule when it comes

4:59 to introductions and referrals. So 20%

5:02 of your network will give you a referral

5:05 or introduction without being asked. So

5:08 I got to imagine that most sales people

5:10 listening today, they're thinking,

5:11 "Yeah, I've gotten a couple referrals.

5:12 I've gotten a couple introductions." So

5:14 I want you to think about how many have

5:16 you gotten in 2026? We're halfway

5:18 through the year. And then of those that

5:21 you've gotten, how many did you actually

5:24 ask for? Because most salespeople, it's

5:27 coming from that 20%. the 20% who are

5:30 natural givers, natural connectors. They

5:32 get a lot of energy out of telling other

5:34 people like you need to talk to them.

5:35 They've they've helped me tremendously.

5:38 So those come in organically from that

5:40 20%.

5:41 >> On the flip side, there's another 20%.

5:44 That no matter what you do, you can ask

5:47 until the cows come home. They are not

5:49 going to give them to you because they

5:51 just have hesitation about it. They

5:53 don't want to do it. They don't feel

5:54 comfortable making that introduction. So

5:56 that 20% probably never going to ask.

5:59 But what I'm really looking to change is

6:02 the movable middle. That 60% in the

6:05 middle are those of us that are in our

6:08 network that will be happy to give an

6:10 introduction or a referral if they're

6:14 asked. So as we think about the

6:15 strategy, I want us to really be

6:17 thinking about I'm targeting this 60%

6:20 because that's the part I control by

6:22 just asking, right?

6:25 >> Yeah. for that uh that 20% that's just

6:28 probably never going to give one. I

6:29 mean, is that one where like if you if

6:31 you reach out to somebody and you're

6:33 taking a guess, you think maybe they

6:34 would, maybe you're wrong, that's no no

6:36 harm, right? Uh if you get that kind of

6:39 initial no and it seems like a pretty

6:41 like flat like no, not interested. Would

6:44 you just say like hey, just drop that.

6:45 Don't worry about that person. It's not

6:47 about you. It's about their preferences.

6:49 Move on to the other people. They're

6:50 part of that.

6:51 >> Yeah, absolutely. because you know if we

6:54 just take the math alone right another

6:56 80% are willing to give it to you. Um so

6:59 part of it around how we ask I I'm

7:01 purposely using the word introduction on

7:04 purpose because introduction is a lot

7:06 softer. So some of those 20% might move

7:09 to that 60% just with the change of

7:13 introduction over referral. I don't know

7:15 about you, but I can think of an a a a

7:18 thing in my past, right, where I gave a

7:20 referral to somebody that maybe I was

7:22 good friends with, but I'd never

7:24 actually used their services and then I

7:27 made that referral

7:29 >> and then they messed it up and now I

7:31 kind of have egg on my face and look bad

7:33 and then obviously that impacts my my

7:36 hesitancy to do it again. So referral is

7:40 is kind of strong because there's a I'm

7:43 vouching for you aspect where

7:46 introduction is a lot softer, right? I'm

7:49 making an introduction. Thought the two

7:51 of you should talk. That's about it. May

7:54 or may not be somebody that ultimately

7:57 uh is going to be impactful to you, but

7:59 I thought of introduction would be

8:01 warranted. Right? That's a much lower

8:04 bar ask. So, we train our clients to

8:06 focus talking about introductions versus

8:09 referrals because there's not as much

8:12 >> meat and like pressure associated with

8:15 referral that there is with

8:16 introduction. So, I we always use the

8:18 term would you be willing to make an

8:20 introduction versus would you be willing

8:22 to give me a referral.

8:24 >> Yeah, that distinction makes a lot of

8:26 sense. I I get like the using them

8:27 synonymously just a normal conversation

8:29 but then when you're being deliberate in

8:31 the process it makes sense in that. So

8:33 you are you would say though that like

8:35 that movable 60 there might be like a

8:38 gray line where like oh because I asked

8:40 for an introduction they that person

8:41 actually is part of the movable 60 would

8:43 you still define that movable 60 if

8:45 somebody's like um you haven't like

8:48 they've like giving you indicators that

8:49 maybe you haven't quite earned the trust

8:51 yet like like hey if somebody says like

8:53 you know what we just started using your

8:54 product or started using your services

8:57 let me just try it out for three months

8:58 before I start introducing you to people

9:00 you know would that be somebody who

9:02 you'd say like okay that person's is

9:03 definitely a movable 60 or would you say

9:05 that's somebody you're trying to get out

9:06 of that um non-referred?

9:08 >> I think that's somebody that's in the

9:09 60. They didn't say no, they didn't shut

9:11 you down, but it's been my experience

9:13 that even from the time we make a sale,

9:16 so if I signed you up to tomorrow as a

9:20 new client, right, we say as part of our

9:22 onboarding, you know, you can expect

9:25 that we're going to um meet and exceed

9:28 your expectations. when we do, I'm going

9:31 to come back to you and we're going to

9:34 talk about who else you might know that

9:36 we could help in a similar fashion.

9:39 >> So, I'm teeing up the introduction ask

9:42 when I first make the sale. And that's

9:45 partly as a trap for myself to make sure

9:47 that I do it. It's also priming them to

9:51 go, okay, you know, I'm not surprised

9:52 when you come back and ask. So, it's not

9:54 too early to start asking for that

9:57 introduction at the time you make a sale

9:59 or even when you get a no from somebody

10:02 else. It's okay to say appreciate that

10:05 we might not be a fit for you. I don't

10:08 suppose you know anyone else in your

10:10 sphere of influence who you'd be willing

10:12 to make an introduction to that maybe

10:13 could potentially be a better fit. I

10:15 think a lot of sales people miss the

10:17 opportunity to ask for the intro. Even

10:20 if they get a no in an outbound reach

10:22 or, you know, don't make a sale, it it

10:25 we can still ask. The worst they can say

10:27 is no. Um, but you'd be surprised how

10:30 many times they'll come up with some

10:32 ideas of people that we could be talking

10:34 to.

10:34 >> Yeah, it makes sense because, you know,

10:35 no is not a bad word. Like just because

10:37 something's not a fit doesn't mean that

10:39 there's some issue here. It's, you know,

10:41 we kind of look at some of our

10:42 situations with our competitors and we

10:44 kind of go, hey, there's a definitive

10:46 ICP for them and a definitive ICP for us

10:49 and if I call somebody for them, it's

10:51 like it's not a big deal. Like they're

10:52 just not the right fit for us. So move

10:54 on to the next one and then maybe they

10:56 do know somebody that is a little bit

10:58 closer to ISP. So

10:59 >> yeah, I'm really glad you said ICP and

11:01 ideal client profile because I think

11:03 >> yeah,

11:04 >> we need to understand that in our intro

11:06 ask, right? I want to be specific in who

11:10 I'm looking for. So, if I were to be

11:12 looking for an introduction, I'm looking

11:14 for an introduction to senior business

11:17 executives. Sometimes they're the

11:18 president. Sometimes they might be a

11:20 vice president. Sometimes they might be

11:22 a CEO of a company that has a sales team

11:25 between five and 25 people with a few

11:28 managers. Uh that is growth mindset

11:32 oriented. They might be doing well

11:34 already, but they know that there's more

11:36 out there.

11:37 >> Who like that might you know? So, it's

11:39 really important that we give a little

11:41 bit of clarifier to introductions

11:44 because sometimes what I see is when

11:46 salespeople start this, they're like,

11:47 "Hey, can you make some introductions?"

11:49 And they get names and they get

11:50 introductions, but they're not

11:51 necessarily to the right people. I even

11:54 have a newer seller on my team and his

11:56 intro ask over the last year has really

11:59 transitioned because when he first got

12:00 in the business, he was just trying to

12:02 talk to people about I got this new gig,

12:04 right? And he wasn't really as dialed

12:06 into what we do now, whereas now his

12:08 intro ask is a whole lot different. He's

12:10 much more targeted and who he's asking

12:12 for. So the quality of those

12:14 introductions come up. So, as we start

12:17 asking for introductions, if we're not

12:18 having the right conversations, you

12:21 might want to look back at how are you

12:23 teeing up your ICP or your ideal

12:25 introduction so that they know who to

12:28 introduce you to.

12:30 >> Yeah. What are what are some of those

12:32 components of the quality ask that kind

12:34 of make it more impactful that you

12:36 should like, all right, maybe not

12:37 everyone says exactly the same words,

12:39 but these are the things that have to be

12:41 involved in that process. Yeah, I think

12:43 the titles that that the key dis level

12:46 of decision maker is really important to

12:48 talk about because it like for me I only

12:51 meet with senior business executives.

12:52 Don't set me up with a sales manager or

12:54 a salesperson because that's not my best

12:57 first call, right? So in my world I want

12:59 to talk to the executive suite. So I

13:02 want to be very clear that I'm looking

13:03 for that level of person. So that level

13:06 of person or persona is important. if

13:09 you target certain industries or I had a

13:12 client where they're in the roofing

13:14 business, right? So, anybody with a flat

13:16 roof could be a candidate for them.

13:19 Anybody with, you know, trucks on the

13:21 road that has branding. It all depends

13:23 on who you're calling into, but I I want

13:25 you to take pieces of your ideal client

13:27 profile and sprinkle that in to the

13:30 types of people that you're looking for.

13:32 You could also like another example of

13:35 an ask is so the newer seller I have on

13:38 my team, he's now asking for

13:39 introductions to do speaking

13:41 engagements. Instead of looking for

13:43 introductions to individuals, I'm

13:45 looking for a place an audience where

13:47 someone could benefit from some sales

13:50 content, help, you know, help improve

13:52 the quality of their meetings, give

13:53 fresh new content. you know, what

13:55 industry associations or groups are you

13:58 a part of that might benefit from having

14:00 somebody from the outside come in and

14:02 talk about sales? So, we can do it all

14:05 depends on what you're looking for,

14:06 right? You can ask for individual

14:08 conversations. You can also ask for like

14:10 what he's looking to do is to book more

14:12 speaking opportunities. So, he's asking

14:14 specifically as his intro ask for that

14:16 instead of keep people. Now,

14:18 >> that's cool. I would have never thought

14:19 that that being part of the referral ask

14:21 like process, but makes perfect sense.

14:23 And why wouldn't you leverage that

14:25 opportunity?

14:26 >> Um,

14:27 >> so I've heard some people say like you

14:29 should have like a list of like five

14:30 people going in to when you're making

14:32 that ask. Are you in line with that or

14:34 do you have like a different approach to

14:36 >> Yeah, studies would actually say those

14:38 numbers could be as high as seven or 10.

14:40 I was having this dialogue with another

14:42 Sandler colleague who's like if I give

14:45 at least seven names of somebody they're

14:48 bound to know probably one because if

14:50 I'm using a tool like LinkedIn which we

14:53 can talk about more tactics in a minute

14:54 right the beautiful thing about LinkedIn

14:56 is I don't need to ask you Austin who do

14:58 you know I can go search your

15:00 connections for some of those ideal

15:02 client profile personas industries

15:05 locations whatever it might be so that I

15:08 can say specifically hey Austin I

15:10 noticed on LinkedIn that you happen to

15:12 know these folks. Curious how well do

15:14 you know them

15:16 >> and would you be willing who would you

15:17 be willing to make an introduction too?

15:20 Right? That's a very more specific

15:22 tailored ask because I have the ability

15:24 to go in and see who you know because a

15:26 lot of times when we ask like oh do you

15:28 know it's oh I don't know I can't think

15:30 of anyone at this time right? Um so

15:33 being very specific about doing your

15:35 research and figuring out who they know

15:37 and offering to reciprocate. Uh, another

15:40 rule of thumb with referrals and

15:41 introductions is to get more, give more.

15:44 So, I might say, "Austin, why don't we

15:46 do this? You know, we haven't talked in

15:47 a while. I'd love to have lunch, grab a

15:50 coffee, and maybe compare notes to see

15:52 if we can help each other with some

15:53 introductions before our meeting. Go

15:55 through my LinkedIn profile. Go through

15:57 my connection, see who on that list

15:59 might be somebody that were is worthy of

16:02 an introduction, and I'll do the same."

16:04 And then you have a targeted meeting

16:06 with prep work and you're going in being

16:08 able to talk about real people instead

16:10 of theoretical.

16:11 >> Yeah. Um

16:14 I'm one of the offenders of like

16:15 LinkedIn my network has kind of outgrown

16:18 the people that I truly know and it's

16:19 just you know maybe a little too easy to

16:21 accept invites and then

16:23 >> you know full disclosure I might send a

16:25 connection request if I'm prospecting

16:27 somebody for sure.

16:28 >> So yeah um you know with that you're

16:30 saying like one out of seven might hit.

16:33 What would you say like, okay, let's say

16:34 you get the seven, they're all great,

16:36 but that person happens to say, would

16:38 love to introduce you. I actually don't

16:39 really know any of them. Would you say

16:41 like load up another seven or be like,

16:43 hey, like would love to kind of talk a

16:45 little bit more about our ICP and then

16:46 maybe it'd be easier if you like were

16:48 targeted. Like what's the balance after

16:50 maybe like swinging a miss on seven of

16:52 them?

16:53 >> Yeah. I mean, I think either one of

16:55 those can work. The first is know that

16:57 going in. Like, and I might even say

16:59 that as part of my ask. You know, I

17:00 found seven to 10 people on your

17:01 LinkedIn. You probably don't even know

17:04 at least half of them, but thought I'd

17:06 put them in, right? I I think you go

17:08 into that ask and expect that they don't

17:11 know it. Um, I will tell you when

17:13 searching LinkedIn, I always prioritize

17:16 where I have more than one shared

17:18 connection, right? So, if I have three,

17:20 four, five, six ways to get to that

17:23 person, it's a whole lot easier target

17:25 to ask for. So, if I'm searching my

17:28 connections for their connections, so

17:30 I'm going to run a search on LinkedIn

17:32 for second connections because I don't

17:34 need to know who I already know on

17:35 LinkedIn, right? I need to know who I

17:37 don't know. So, I might put in some

17:38 filters. And you can do this in free

17:40 LinkedIn. You can do this in Navigator

17:42 and like save the search and have it a

17:44 little bit more robust if you're on

17:45 Navigator. Um, but I'm going to go in

17:47 run a search on my connections. And I

17:50 want all second connections of you,

17:52 Austin, that are senior business

17:54 executives, have sales. I might put in

17:56 some other demographics that I'm looking

17:59 for and then up is going to come a list

18:02 of all these names and it'll tell me if

18:04 you know them. It will also tell me if

18:06 other people in my connections know

18:08 them. So the ones with the most shared

18:12 connections I typically prioritize

18:14 because I have more than one one way to

18:17 get to that person, right? So if you

18:18 don't know him, someone else I'm

18:20 connected to might. Um but certainly I

18:23 would do that as part of the ask. I

18:25 mean, it's you might not know any of

18:26 these. Some of them, like I'm the same

18:28 way. I have enough LinkedIn connections

18:30 that even when I see it in my newsfeed

18:32 and some you see some activity on

18:34 people, you're like, I don't even know

18:35 who that is, right? Um, and there's two

18:38 schools of thought, right? Certainly

18:39 leveraging your connections on LinkedIn

18:42 is a lot easier when you know the

18:44 people. Um, so if we kind of go to a

18:46 tactic standpoint for a minute, you got

18:49 to make sure you're connected to all

18:51 your clients on LinkedIn. And that's a

18:53 best practice that takes some

18:55 maintenance and remembering. I'm guilty

18:57 of it. I might have a new team I'm

18:58 working with that has 25 people. I'm

19:00 probably connected to the decision

19:02 makers, but unless I remember to go in

19:04 and connect to all the individual sales

19:06 people, I'm going to forget. But it's

19:08 really hard for me to now farm my

19:11 existing or old clients for either

19:14 recapture opportunities. Maybe they went

19:16 somewhere else and I need to be talking

19:17 to them about their new place of

19:19 employment or to go in and say who else

19:21 do they know searching their connection.

19:23 So we have to make sure we stay

19:25 connected with all of our clients,

19:28 customers, strategic partners because

19:30 that's the quality part of your network

19:32 that's really going to help you as you

19:34 try to do some of this. I I onboarding a

19:38 team this week and I totally had not put

19:40 it on my to-do list to connect with them

19:41 on LinkedIn. I'm g have to do that right

19:42 after we get off this podcast and go

19:45 make sure I'm following that best

19:46 practice because it's silly to not do

19:47 that. For sure.

19:48 >> Yeah. But it's it's happens to me too. I

19:50 I find clients I'm like, "How are we not

19:52 connected?" And then I send a connection

19:53 request. Looks like we're not connected

19:54 on LinkedIn. Let's fix that. Like I need

19:57 to fix that. Right. Um if you've got any

19:59 type of admin support, sometimes they

20:01 can go in and help you with that so that

20:03 it takes it off of your list. Sometimes

20:05 that's something that if you say here's

20:07 the rosters, here's are all the clients,

20:09 go make sure I, you know, send the

20:10 connection requests on my behalf. Helps

20:12 take it off of our list, too, if we have

20:14 resources to help with that.

20:16 >> Um, but cool.

20:17 >> Yeah. So when you're doing it sounds

20:20 like there's kind of two ways that

20:21 you're approaching like your networking

20:23 initial step which is I'm either going

20:24 to put together a bunch of people I'm

20:26 interested in and then reverse engineer

20:28 who I want to go talk to

20:29 >> and then but it sounds like there's also

20:31 the but also like set up a meeting with

20:33 somebody and do from that person the

20:35 other direction as well and people

20:37 should be doing both of those approaches

20:38 to

20:38 >> absolutely and with the help of

20:40 technology uh you can try to run some of

20:43 those um client lists if you have a CRM

20:46 you export the client list from the CRM

20:48 or whatever type of database you're

20:50 housing all of your customers. And then

20:53 Claude has helped me a lot as I'm trying

20:55 to use Navigator more effectively

20:57 because I am not as savvy as I should

21:00 be. But Claude can help clean up the

21:02 lists, tell you what you need to set up

21:04 in Navigator to be able to run some of

21:06 those searches, have your different save

21:09 list, because that's half the battle is

21:12 just doing the prep work to know who to

21:14 reach out to. The outreach part takes

21:16 the least amount of time, but it's the

21:19 who am I reaching out to and then kind

21:22 of tracking where you are in the

21:24 process. I was meeting with another

21:25 Sandler colleague who has like this

21:27 massive spreadsheet where he's got his

21:30 seven to 10 people. He's tracking where

21:32 he is in the process, who said yes, did

21:35 the intro request go out, what happened?

21:38 Because that's the part of the followup

21:40 and follow through that, you know, we

21:42 get busy falls off. I'll be like, "Oh, I

21:43 asked Austin, but did everything

21:45 anything ever happen to that? Did he

21:46 send it back?

21:48 >> What happened?" Right? So, it's it's

21:50 building those target lists and then

21:52 making sure we're staying on top of the

21:55 follow-through required because we know

21:57 getting connected with people takes more

21:59 attempts than it did before. So, we have

22:01 to track where we are in that prog

22:02 process.

22:03 >> Yeah. And it it seems like um and maybe

22:06 it's counterintuitive, but it seems like

22:07 if somebody's willing to give me an

22:09 introduction one time, that's probably

22:11 somebody that I should continue to not

22:12 like every single day or ask, but

22:15 >> you know, it's not like, okay, you

22:17 anyone you talk to has five

22:18 introductions in the whole time they

22:20 ever know you and you got to be sparing

22:21 with them. It's like, no, somebody's

22:23 active,

22:24 >> that's the person that you want to bring

22:25 into that, you know, 20% and really

22:27 focus on staying in touch with and, you

22:29 know, continuing to provide value back

22:31 to them.

22:31 >> Yeah. you might find that once it works,

22:33 they become that 20%, they just keep

22:35 sending them to you. Um, but we also

22:37 want to be careful that we don't over go

22:41 to the well too often. So, you want as

22:43 many people as you can and then I think

22:45 that reciprocation is really important

22:47 and goes a long way that if we get one

22:49 from somebody, then how can I help you?

22:51 What are the types of people that might

22:53 be beneficial for you to be introduced

22:55 to? because that law of rep reciprocity

22:58 really does play in when it comes to

23:00 intros and referrals and sometimes

23:02 that's the best way to get them flowing

23:04 is by starting it by giving as well.

23:07 >> Yeah. Um I just totally blanked out what

23:10 I was going to ask. Well, that's

23:13 um yeah. Yeah. I I think that uh one of

23:16 the things that I was doing uh earlier

23:17 this week was going through and I had I

23:20 use chatbt plaid. I don't know

23:22 interchangeable. I'm not here to argue

23:23 about which one's better. Y

23:25 >> I have dropped in like all of our

23:27 existing client list and then had it

23:28 define its ICP based on what it thinks

23:31 and then had it go through and like look

23:33 at a bunch of leaders. And it was really

23:35 nice cuz it could go and research each

23:37 business and say how close is that one

23:38 to it? And obviously I'm not going to

23:40 just, you know, not think and just do

23:43 whatever it says. But it saved me a

23:44 bunch of Googling to go, okay, is this,

23:46 you know, does it match this criteria,

23:48 this criteria, this criteria? and and

23:51 then I obviously read the summary,

23:52 verify on my own when it said here's the

23:54 top five or I should start doing top

23:56 seven. Um, but it was a real time saver

23:59 and really nice to be able to have just

24:01 like a little grunt work done by AI

24:03 instead of myself.

24:04 >> 100%. AI is way better at analyzing

24:07 customers than I am. And you can learn

24:09 so much. I've done a lot of recent like

24:11 client studies using cloud like putting

24:14 in some client lists, asking for trends,

24:16 what does it see industries. That's it's

24:19 great for market research. And then from

24:21 there, you can say like who are the key

24:23 personas? And then that's what you put

24:25 into your LinkedIn navigator search of

24:28 searches that you're looking for or

24:29 that's how you search your existing

24:31 criteria is pulling what you learned

24:34 from the AI research into the filters so

24:38 that then it starts to pull that up so

24:40 that it helps you narrow that target

24:42 down.

24:43 >> Yeah. It's not half bad at telling you

24:45 how to fill out the filters on LinkedIn,

24:46 the navigator.

24:47 >> No, it's great. It's, you know, it's

24:49 we're in the era of work smarter, not

24:50 harder, and AI is way smarter than me,

24:52 so I'm all for it.

24:54 >> Yeah. Um, there's the question I was

24:56 going to ask, and I totally had blanked

24:57 on. Um, so when we were talking about

24:58 not going back to the well too often,

25:00 >> I mean, is that something where it's

25:01 like once a quarter, but don't do it

25:04 less than or don't do more often than

25:06 that and then maybe even like once every

25:08 six months. Like what general rule of

25:10 thumb, you know?

25:11 >> Yeah. I mean, I think it depends on how

25:13 the conversation goes. But certainly, I

25:15 don't know that I would go back to

25:16 somebody more than once a quarter just

25:19 because I don't want to be a pest,

25:20 right? I mean, even if it goes well and

25:22 if that person has another 10 people

25:25 that they know, you know, maybe we talk

25:27 to them and, you know, I don't want to

25:28 bombard you. You know, what do you want

25:30 to, you know, sounds like there's some

25:32 more people that that you could know?

25:34 How often should we reconnect on this?

25:36 you know, maybe get their buy in too

25:38 because they might surprise us and be

25:39 like, I'll send all 10 right now. Okay,

25:41 cool. Right? Like, let's talk to them

25:43 about it depending on what the unique

25:46 situation is. But certainly, I I think

25:48 more than once a quarter seems a bit

25:52 pushy, unless they say, "Yeah, no, I'm

25:54 game. Let's go. Keep it up." Like,

25:56 right. It just depends.

25:57 >> Rule rule of thumb, right? Yeah.

25:59 Obviously, there's going to be different

26:00 situations.

26:01 >> Um,

26:01 >> yeah.

26:02 >> Yeah. I guess the last question I have

26:04 for you, I do want to respect your time.

26:05 we had the upfront contract on it. Um,

26:08 do you find that uh, you know, keeping

26:10 it kind of informal, you know, doing the

26:12 reciprocity is an effective thing or

26:14 should like if I'm a sales leader be

26:16 thinking about how do we put a formal

26:18 referral program into place to maybe

26:19 incentivize those introductions?

26:23 >> I think both can work. Um, I've seen

26:26 both work. I think if I'm an individual

26:28 seller and I'm not asking today, I want

26:30 to start asking. So, I got to build my

26:32 target list. Come up with a template

26:34 because, you know, and you know, Chad or

26:36 Claude can help you with that

26:38 conversational low pressure type of ask.

26:41 Um, so that you've got the template

26:43 written. always want to ask for to offer

26:46 to draft the intro for the person you're

26:48 asking for because sometimes that's the

26:50 biggest hurdle is Austin, I'm going to

26:52 ask you if you can make an introduction

26:54 to Bob and then I I go ahead and drafted

26:57 it for feel free to edit it any way

27:00 you'd like because sometimes the

27:02 hesitation isn't just the asking, it's

27:04 so they don't know what to say. So if we

27:06 can draft those templates and use some

27:08 of those templates in our asking, always

27:10 have them edit it. feel free to edit it

27:12 for your language, but it takes some of

27:14 the resistance level of, oh, what am I

27:17 going to say to I already wrote it for

27:18 you? Just send it and CC me, right? Um,

27:21 is a great way. And I don't think we

27:23 covered this. But that part's really

27:25 important, right? I don't want just a

27:26 name and a number because then it's no

27:28 different than a sales call. Like when I

27:30 say like a cold call, right? I want it I

27:33 want it warmed up. So Austin, I want you

27:35 to reach out to Bob, ask if you'd be

27:37 willing to take the introduction and

27:39 then send it. Right? That's a really

27:41 important step. Sometimes I see, oh

27:42 well, I got a referral. I got this name

27:44 and the phone number. Well, do they know

27:46 you're calling? Did they warm it up for

27:47 you? No. Okay. Well, now all I'm doing

27:49 is making a cold call. I just have an

27:50 actual phone number that I know is going

27:52 to get through. Whereas if it was info

27:54 or something else, it didn't. So, it's

27:56 always really important that that intro

27:59 source does that warm-up for you so that

28:02 you're not making a cold call. Uh, and

28:04 also from somebody who's given I I've

28:06 heard people call it like a double

28:08 opt-in where you make sure both parties

28:09 are interested.

28:10 >> Yes.

28:11 >> As an individual, I'm like that makes me

28:12 feel so much more comfortable reaching

28:14 out to the person like, are you willing

28:15 to have that combo? And then if they're

28:17 not, no big deal. Um, but then it just

28:19 make me feel better sending that email

28:20 and like

28:21 >> absolutely.

28:22 >> I'm all about that.

28:23 >> Yeah.

28:24 >> All right. So, want to respect your

28:25 time. Uh, one last thing is if

28:28 somebody's listening in, what's the uh

28:30 what's the big takeaway that they should

28:32 make sure to apply to their own sales

28:33 practice if they're if they're gonna

28:35 only remember one thing from this, what

28:36 would what would it be?

28:38 >> Have a goal for introduction asks every

28:40 single week and stick to it and track

28:42 it. Even if it's two or one, it might be

28:45 one or two more than you're doing now.

28:47 So, the more consistent you can be in

28:50 that outreach every single week, the

28:52 more you're going to see results.

28:53 >> Yeah. Force yourself to do the behavior.

28:55 everything else will start to follow.

28:57 Yeah.

28:57 >> Yep. Absolutely.

28:59 >> Well, I really appreciate it. Great. I

29:01 learned a bunch. I got some to-do list

29:03 items from what we just said that I got

29:05 to go run off and do before I forget.

29:07 Um, yeah. Thank you for taking the time.

29:09 >> Excellent. Thanks for having me.