Ken Seawell on Prospecting Mindset, Rejection, and Sales Clarity

Transcript

0:00 Right.

0:04 Yeah. As we were saying like Yeah. I think that you know the guys are making the calls and

0:11 you know I'll know more tomorrow morning when I talk to them because I haven't asked them about the calls recently but I will ask them about you know what are

0:19 they seeing what are they hearing and the fact that they're actually doing it is the most important thing right.

0:26 Yeah. I think in the you know at the end of the day and you're learning this in class and have learned this is

0:33 it's the activity that counts not the result.

0:37 You can't, you know, you can't manifest or, you know, motivate, manipulate someone into doing

0:46 something they don't want to do, call you back, return your email, click the LinkedIn message return, right? But you can do the reach out and the outreach to it.

0:56 Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's been an interesting experience building the muscle and like we're currently under like the

1:04 pressure of need needing to sell, but then like truly the muscle building is the activity that's happening right now.

1:11 And so the results aren't going to be as good as somebody like as you who's seasoned. But then like within that line, it's like

1:18 there's gonna be moments where you're like the muscle building activity should lead me a different path, but my need for revenue is leading me on a different

1:26 path and it's bifrocating and then it's trying to balance the two things against one another.

1:31 And that's the hardest thing in the beginning being being, you know, financially independent, not needing the money, right? Yeah. and

1:40 being able to say that to yourself. But that ultimately is what has to happen.

1:45 Um, but I think it is a balance of you working towards it, right? You you you

1:54 chase really hard. Chase is the wrong word, but you work really hard the deals you think you can win and then start to let go of the ones

2:03 that aren't worth, you know, pursuing. And as soon as you start to get that under your belt, you start to feel like, okay,

2:11 I've got power. I've got control. I think that the sooner you learn to walk away from things, the better you'll

2:19 feel. And I can only tell you that you have to experience yourself. I can't, you know, I I know it from mine. You

2:28 know, I'm at a point where I just don't care, right?

2:32 I mean, I don't care about helping. It's not that I don't care about helping or making money, but if they can't say yes

2:40 or no, I I I can't, you know, I can't be more emotionally invested than they are.

2:47 And I think that's the biggest line to remember, right? Do the behavior because it's, you know, it's cut because it's

2:53 what you committed to from, you know, yourself and to your business and to your family that you're doing it with commitment, consistency, and conviction.

3:05 and then go home at night and say, "I did what I said I was going to do." Yeah.

3:09 Because if Warren was going to make you money, Austin, we'd all be rich.

3:14 Yeah. I think uh I'd be a trillionaire at this point if it was making me money.

3:20 And I like I like the the the process of, you know, your top sale because I think part of the battle of

3:28 prospecting is who am I going to call, right?

3:31 Yeah. Now I have a pretty good ro rolodex of people to talk to and so you

3:39 know I can reach into my CRM and say yeah I haven't talked to that cat in a long time but I still have to do some

3:47 energy around figuring that out. But I have a a plan like yours where you know you're going to send me 10 names and I

3:55 have to either email them or call them or text them or LinkedIn them. I'm like, that ain't hard at all. And to do 10 of those, you could be done. You know, I I

4:04 remember the days when when I had to do 16, you know, and I'm like, it's going to take me all day to do 16. But 44 minutes, I was done.

4:14 Yeah.

4:15 And so, it's not that hard once you start. And I think the the beautiful thing about having them is, you know,

4:23 these are people that, you know, are in the funnel for a reason. they showed some interest or uh

4:30 yeah some interest in doing things and so yeah if they're not interested when we talk to them they're not interested.

4:37 Yeah. Uh I'm really fascinated right now by like the mindset stuff because I think that's like been my I I have a lot

4:45 of technique to be working through right now. But um the mindset around what I'm doing when I'm making the phone calls um

4:53 and then like to your point about being able to walk away like I have no problem being like this person isn't going to be

5:00 worth my time and then just like getting out of the way disqualify him saying no thanks. However, uh Eric was talking to

5:08 me about um are you being the uh the adult ego that

5:14 is, you know, neutral and um you know, making a decision based on logic that makes a lot of sense. Or is that

5:21 actually you doing like a defensive move and being like, well, if I walk away, they can't reject me and then having to ask yourself that question because it's it's not an easy question. I think I

5:30 think there are times where it's very much on like the border of well are you defending yourself and your ego and not wanting to be rejected or are you

5:38 actually just being logical and being like hey this person's giving me plenty of signals to walk away from it.

5:43 I take a different take on that because that's all true from what I'm telling you.

5:47 My take is that is it about me or is it about them? Mhm.

5:52 Because when I just start to rationalize that this person isn't in the right demographic, isn't my ICP or won't take my call, then that's about me.

6:03 If I may really make it about him, I just pick up the phone and call him.

6:07 Yeah. But then during the conversation, like are you Well, it either goes somewhere or it doesn't, right? Because I think

6:16 if if you do your prospecting call correctly, you're asking the kind of questions to help them decide how you sort them because this whole process is

6:25 sorting, right?

6:27 You got you got a group of people that you call suspects because you suspect they might have interest in working with you, right?

6:34 Yeah. I like that. They either become prospects because there's an opportunity or they become rejects because they've rejected the notion of needing your services.

6:45 Yeah. And that's all you're doing is sorting. That's correct.

6:48 So if you think about not rejecting you but rejecting the premise of needing top sale in your case or Sandler training in mine,

6:57 then it's not about me, right?

7:00 And then I don't have to get upset about it. Where do you draw the line on objection handling? Like is it is there a clear distinction or do you think it's

7:08 kind of a messy because I'm in the spot where it feels very messy but I think it's also technique based or technique issue like for me like still

7:16 let's be let's be honest it's it if we think about it in the middle of a context of a no pressure prospecting call

7:25 they answer the phone have already ruined their day because it interrupted their day. Now, the fact that they picked up the phone is inconsequential to them.

7:36 Yeah.

7:36 And I'm like, if you don't want to talk to me, don't answer your phone. You know, what am I gonna do?

7:40 But they answer the phone. Right. Now, it's on them, but they're inconvenienced. Right. And so, we have to recognize there's going to be a little bit of just push back from the beginning.

7:49 And if I treat it naturally and I say, and I read the body language, I hear what's going on and the way they

7:56 communicate with me that it isn't a good fit. And if I say, "Hey, this didn't sound like it's a good fit and something

8:03 you won't want to talk about." Then I'm just being honest and going negative to get to the truth.

8:11 And if I get to the truth, I got to the truth. They don't want to talk to me.

8:15 Whether it's because they interrupted them right now or it's truly not something they're interested in, I got the truth, which is all I'm looking for.

8:24 Yes or no?

8:26 Yeah. And so I'll handle some of the objections by just being mildly curious. You know, one guy, what did the last guy say to me?

8:39 He said to me, one of the last calls I did said, I'm not interested in what you do.

8:47 And I said, curious, why are you not interested? I don't like your approach. I said, okay, now I'm really interested.

8:55 What did you not like about my approach? You call me every day. Yeah.

9:00 And that's when I told you, let's change the sequencing because it's right. I did,

9:08 right? It was like because there was a call one day and two days later LinkedIn and two days later voice, you know, and so yeah, I did come up and okay, that

9:16 seems fair. Now, I didn't I didn't like it in real time and you seem judgmental, but when you think about it, it's like,

9:24 yeah, okay, that makes sense. And so, talking with you and then talking a little bit with Eric about changing it to what would be the right cadence of calling people every week or reaching out every week, I'm learning as I go.

9:35 And so, I think that's that, you know, at the end of the day, I'm not going to be overcome objections

9:43 that they want to be in front of the conversation, right? I'm just going to try to deal with them as best I can to get clear

9:51 about do you really want to have a conversation or is this objection your polite way to tell me no because you don't have to object to me. You can just tell me no.

10:00 Yeah.

10:00 You know, you know the guys that you call 12 times and then they're mad at you the 12th time. Like, well, why don't you just tell me you weren't interested

10:09 in the first call? I'd be okay. Now, that's, you know, picking a fight here and there sometimes, and you know, you don't need to do that either, but

10:16 Oh, clarity. At the end of the day, Austin, I'm looking for clarity, right?

10:21 Yeah. I had uh I had somebody respond to me and you know, I'm obviously reaching out to sales leaders and somebody responded back and they were like, "You're harassing me." And I was like,

10:30 "I have called and emailed you once a week. I have not done anything else outside of that." That's in my opinion not harassment.

10:38 Right. And for a saleserson to consider that harassment, I thought was was interesting. Let's put it that way.

10:44 And and you think about it. Yes. Now, and because what's really happening is this is how he's feeling. We're not we're not honoring that feeling, right?

10:54 Yeah. That's a good point.

10:55 Because it's true whether it's whether you believe it or not or agree with it, it's still how the person felt. And so I understand that too. This guy didn't

11:03 thought I was harassing him by calling him every other day. And I was like, "Okay, fine.

11:09 But then I just move on, right? Because if you're going to be thin skinned, then you're probably not going to be the guy I want to work with anyway. So you you

11:18 move on. So one of the things that I've been dealing with on my journey of this is I'm I'm cool making the call.

11:25 I wasn't feeling super comfortable because at a point I felt like I was invading private space. But then as I kind of like continue to rationalize and

11:33 think through it, it was like I'm actually like entering their professional space, not their private space. I'm I'm coming in and saying,

11:41 look, as a somebody in this role, you should have an expectation of people wanting to have conversations with you outside of your organization. You have

11:48 every right in the world to say no thank you and have that person respect that.

11:53 But I think and and I'd be curious what your take is, but I've been kind of thinking it's like we don't have the right to be upset that somebody thought about having a conversation with you and

12:01 said, "Hey, what's up? Would you want to have a conversation?" And then you can just say, "No." But then to be upset by the idea of

12:10 somebody saying, "Hey, do you want to have a conversation?" is unfair.

12:14 It It's unfair, but it happens and you can't really deal with it.

12:18 Yeah. uh because you don't know you don't have a list of these are going to be the unfair calls and the fair calls.

12:24 Uh I think what I recognize is that regardless of what they think I have a good product or service.

12:36 Yeah.

12:37 And I've helped people and I want to see if this person has a need where I can help.

12:46 And he does or doesn't. She does, she doesn't. And we move on. Yeah.

12:52 Now, if he wants to be irritated at that, well, when he hangs up the phone, he can continue to be irritated.

13:00 Well, nothing I'm going to do about it because I can't. I'm just going to be, you know, and and and I got to remember, and I think this is the other thing, if

13:08 I handle it nurturingly, gracefully, then it's all on him anyway.

13:13 Mhm. Because unless I called him some kind of so and so on the call, then yeah, now he's got a reason to be mad.

13:22 But if I didn't do anything other than dial his phone number and he picked it up. I had a guy call me one time, one time I did this to him. You like to

13:29 start? And he says, "Do you know what time of the year it is?" Um, yeah. Yeah.

13:34 Because he was an accountant and I said, "It's tax season. then why would you call me?

13:45 Because I'm curious about whether you need any help with your process.

13:48 Doesn't mean we're going to do anything today, but it's just that, you know, people are going to do what they do and I don't control their

13:55 reaction to things. And if I'm nice and polite and nurturing and genuinely curious about whether there's a need,

14:03 not that that means we're going to do anything, but just whether we want to have a conversation to to continue talking,

14:09 then okay, be, you know, say yes, say no. Be grumpy when you say no. Okay, it's fine. Move on. Right.

14:19 You know, we can't be uh emotionally attached. We can't take this stuff personally. You know, this is no

14:28 place to get your emotional needs met, right? Um yeah, just got to, you know, recognize that it was a no. Breathe.

14:41 What I like to do is uh grieve the process for however long I

14:48 need to. when I feel like I got my my uh my uh feathers rattled, you know, my feathers ruffled a little bit, I grieve

14:56 for however long I need to grieve, then I move on.

15:00 So, in school, uh I had a a leadership class where they're just trying to they weren't saying we're going to make you great leaders, but they're like, "Here

15:07 are the fundamentals of what you need to understand to become a leader." And if you want to have success and you know in business and a really important part of

15:16 this is emotional intelligence. And so I read all of these articles we practice them in a sanitary environment. It was

15:25 very easy. And then I applied them in internal roles and it was it was beginner mode. And um you know through

15:34 conversations with you and through Eric and you know everyone I've been talking to about this and learning from it's like sales the process of being like a

15:42 true seller and becoming really good at it is like you're going to become an expert at emotional intelligence or you're not going to be able to do it.

15:50 And it's been really cool to just kind of like get reframed on that cuz I was lost on that. I had I was like what is this process? What is happening? Why do

15:57 I not feel in control of how I what's going on? And then I got reframed into this is an emotional intelligence

16:04 exercise every single time you have like a cold call and it was about making it so much more accessible for I know we're running up against it but

16:12 two things I'd say. Eric taught me that emotional intelligence is making someone feel better about themselves after talking with me.

16:21 That's a pretty good definition, right?

16:23 And I think the other thing if you recognize what David Sandler's first book was about, you can't teach a kid to ride a bike in a seminar. You and I

16:31 can't get better at cold calling and prospecting unless we do it right.

16:36 So whether we screw it up or piss somebody off or not if don't do it well, you still have to do it to get better.

16:46 And then, you know, couple more months of doing it, you'll be better than you were today.

16:52 I six months ago I was a wreck. It was terrible. I did such a bad job. And now I feel okay

17:00 and and like and just like I know that I could be better. But my comfort like my comfortability and my willingness to go out there, make a fool of myself, try

17:07 again, ask myself what happened, like what went wrong.

17:11 And the only one that knows you're a fool is you anyway. So it's all good. Oh no. A lot of people know I'm a fool.

17:16 Not anybody of any consequence that on a phone call they don't know. All right. So good.

17:21 I have to always remind myself in about an hour they're going to totally forgot I ever call.

17:26 Oh yeah. They forgot you the moment you hung up.

17:28 Yeah. Yeah. They don't they don't care at all.

17:31 All right. Well, I do have to run. I'm pulling a bad salesperson move and running in super late or two minutes late. And

17:38 say two minutes late. You can blame it on me. So, yeah. Always happy to do that. But again, I appreciate it. I also appreciate you've totally broken the

17:46 format and I think this is even a better way to approach it. So, thank you. Well, thank you for the time. Yeah, man. See you. Bye.